RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (released)

[k/t]

So I'd have to ask all three of them? Blargh. Modding is such a chore.

Yes, it might have been WOTW, not DOTS. What's BG (other than your former name), and where can I find the units?

[Polycarpe]

So I'd have to ask all three of them? Blargh. Modding is such a chore.

Yes, it might have been WOTW, not DOTS. What's BG (other than your former name), and where can I find the units?

Imagine on my side with my mod, almost 20 guys I needed to ask.
Just say St. Polycarpe for the credit, you can find the norse models at my old BG Submod at the bottom of the first post, an attached rar. file. The pack contains all the model but you will have to integrate them by yourself, you can also take the older unit codes in the submod and fix them for the better models of the pack to save some time, most of the units were already categorized by the RR/RC system but with an older version (1.8).

[danova]

It's OK that you make some units (model+skin), or you remade some of my units model or skin. But if you want to import a lot of units from an another mod, that is to much for me. Sorry guys, but this interrupt my works integrity and style and that would not be tLK! I woudn't give credit ...
I this case make own your mod, and i give you credit for using units from my mod.
Sorry if i misunderstood something ...
.

[The Bold Burgundian]

Hey k/t I love your submod but in my opinion your installation instructions are a bit messy. So I took your files and made a zip folder with the folder-directory/structure of the mod so all you need to do is drag the mods folder into your MedII directory and say yes to all overwrites. I think this will help people who want to try your mod but aren't as savvy as others when it comes to navigating mod folders and such.

I attached the easy-install zip folder to this post, feel free to include it in your OP if you want.

Pies

[k/t]

Well, this saves me the trouble of doing all of that work.

At least we'll see those units in SS.

More good news: I just took a look at the EDB and you already need armourers in order to build barracks. However, I'll still probably have to fiddle around with it some. Luckily, it's very orderly and easy to read. Good job on that, danova. EDBs in other mods are a complete, unreadable mess and it takes years to find what you're looking for.

[danova]

I would make some extra units if you think its needed (to tLK)! ... but i would like to save my works integrity and my style!
Give a list...

Well, this saves me the trouble of doing all of that work.

At least we'll see those units in SS.

More good news: I just took a look at the EDB and you already need armourers in order to build barracks. However, I'll still probably have to fiddle around with it some. Luckily, it's very orderly and easy to read. Good job on that, danova. EDBs in other mods are a complete, unreadable mess and it takes years to find what you're looking for.

[k/t]

There was some discussion of what's needed in this thread. Norse units who throw a javelin or two before fighting, uh...I forget the rest. A new unit isn't really needed; the existing ones need modifying. As to making the numerous AOR units more different...perhaps we'll be able to address that in the EDU. Still, in the end, an axeman is an axeman...

Also, I don't think Hirdmenn and Heorthgeneats and the axe huscarls of several factions should have a shield because they have a two-handed axe. The shield should be strapped to their backs or non-existent. I brought this up before, but you said it was for "realism", and I asked how is it realistic for someone to wield a two-handed axe with one hand.

All of the units in the mod with metal armour are wearing mail, right? Are there any with scale or lamellar? I gave them all mail stats.

[PerXX]

Looks good so far.
Any chance of a beta-release once you have the unit stats corrected?

[Cincinatus]

In some cases trapped to their backs or their upper arms or shoulders in others.

The extra units mentioned were:

Javelin thrower infantry
Slingers
Breton Light Cavalry
Trained Viking faction archers (below hladir archers but above leidang archers)
Ulfheonar - if you have wolf pelt beserkers
Select Fyrd - as a upgraded fyrdmen unit
Great Fyrd - as a militia cavalry
Norman specific extra Viking unit in case they do not baptize
Breton Spearmen
Welsh extra archer unit
Welsh extra horse unit
Irish specific units one to each faction
Viking spearmen above Leidang spearmen but below Herakle spearmen
Saxon Ships copied from viking ships but with lesser stats and recruited after the first tier saxon boats are recruited
celtic (irish, scot, and welsh) ships copied from vikings and with lesser stats and after a early celtic boat unit.

other suggestions were to add these units to rosters with slightly different stats since they were not mercs:

Ceorlwoerd
Hundredfloc
Geoguthas - to become the basic infantry after Fyrdsmen are bumped up to professional status

I would like to mention many of these are just adjusted units already in game and others could be ported as you said with permission from other mods. The boats could be divided in to Viking Longships, Saxon Longships, Celtic Longships, Celtic Boats, Saxon Boats, Frank Longship, Frank Liburnia (they would probably have Roman type boats inherited or something a bit more sophisticated than the saxons and celts). The Longships would be later and pricier with higher stats than the boats and liburnia.

Other Changes you may consider:

Rule Britannia has some interesting ideas. Some of which could work with The Last Kingdom.

Wessex:

Slingers (first unit size 90 (later unit size 125), range between regular archer and javelins, effective against armor, but relatively low attack ), some training - this is on huge setting btw.
** mel att 2, missle 3, charge 0, def 12**

Alfred's Professional Fyrd (carries spears, swords as second for closer range, chail mail armor, helms, shields), trained

Geoguthas (for all saxon factions, if they have duguthas, they should be able to have the younger troops of the geoguthas too)

Light Spears (javelin throwers)


Franks:

spatamen (great sword effective against armor)

Herban with throwing axes? (could a ruler reinstate this old form of warfare?)

Thurungian Horsemen (they could recruit the horse archers like in the invisio barborum britannia mod, or the medium or heavy horse thurungia had)

Magyars:

Horse archers = (mel attack 3, mis at 5, charge 2, def 18)

Lords Horse archers = (mel attack 5, mis at 8, charge 5, def 25)

Levies - Spear, cloth armor, NO shield, untrained


Hordaland:

Lithsmen - hide in light forest or grass, bonus fighting on beach (call it desert if needed), medium sized axe, shield, light chain armor

Light Spearmen (throwing spears, small shield, cloth armor)


Normans:

Light Breton Horse - (these could be light spearmen horse, light horse archers, or javelin throwers)
Breton Sllingers
Breton Skirmishers
Breton Spears (make breton spears available in western normandy, cherbourg and Caen, Flemish spearmen in rouen, and east until the hamburg.)


Brittany:

Breton Axmen
Breton Spears
Light Horse
slingers (normans can use them also, size first tier 75, second tier 100) - huge setting btw
** mel att 2, missle 2, charge 0, def 10**
Dumonian Cavalry (a number of bretons migrated from the cornwall aka Dumonia region, heavy armor, swords, helms)
Skirmishers (javelin or light spear throwers)
Breton Archers
Breton Heavy Spear


What about adding mercenary buildings to some factions to? Like Rule britannia has.
Franks, normans, bretons, wessex, and danes maybe have that and maybe the welsh too.

[PerXX]

How's progress?

[k/t]

I don't know how to put in slingers. Danova will have to do that if he wants.

I've been playing BC lately, instead of working. I don't know about the newer version, but 2.02 has absolutely CRAPPY stats. I think I'll download 2.3 and do RR/RC stats for that one too. When I'm done with TLK.

Today I prepared to do the mercenaries, and I started categorizing them and assigning them weapons, armour and shield types. I'll do the remaining few tomorrow and start plugging in the stats.

I had an idea today while sitting on the toilet: how about using one of the castle graphics in the building options panel (which aren't in the mod) to represent fiefs? 1 turn to build, 1 florin cost. The fief reduces the money made by the settlement by 10% but it gives you access to feudal units. So you, the faction king, give away land in the province to noblemen. That land now serves primarily as a source of income for them (so the income you get from the settlement drops), but now you can call upon your vassals in times of need.

I think it's possible to make it so that only the player gets the 10% penalty in order to not cripple the AI further.

Also, how about militia units recruitable from walls and professional units recruitable from barracks?

[Cincinatus]

That actually sounds pretty good. I was experimenting with making a few adjustments. Such as, I changed the warships to Boats, and made them cheaper to upkeep, and access to recruit them before the longships. It just makes more sense to me. The unit description says it is a bigger version of the longship yet the stats are clearly for a smaller lesser ship, though the upkeep is confusing. As for experiments, I experimented with adding a Select Fyrd unit and a Spear throwing unit for the Viking factions. So far so good. I do not think, if the select fyrd unit is added that it makes sense to make it a spear unit, there are already so many in the game, but a medium or light sword unit makes more sense. Which is what I did for it. I do not know if you plan to add units or not k/t, but I hope you can agree that the Saxon ship units at least, need adjusting. I can post or show you what I did for those if you want. Mainly I changed the name of the warships to boats and the upkeep to 150 a year. And I reversed their recruitment with the Longships and also adjusted the spawn available rate. It should work much better now and be a far less competition with Viking factions in sea warfare.

I do not know if slingers can be added either. From what I have been reading though there is certainly strong evidence that Wessex and the Normans had some slingers. I watched a episode of Warriors on the Vikings, and it tells the viewers, the Vikings even had throwing axes. I do not know if it is possible or practical to add all or even more than half of the suggested units from previous posts. A few would certainly improve the immersion and experience factors.

[k/t]

I can't add anything. Only danova can do that. Both because he knows how and because he doesn't want any foreign units in his mod.

[PerXX]

The Fief idea sounds really cool! I really like that. I'm not familiar enough with this time era, to know if that system was actually used at the time? I'd personally associate it with a later medieval times, but as said, I don't really know.

I don't like units being available directly from the walls, that doesn't make sense to me. I can agree with splitting troops up over different building lines though. Perhaps you could have peasant class units available from the Farms? (that'd probably also encourage AI to build farms more), then professionals from the Barracks line, and feudals from the Fiefs. Maybe then change the current "foreign units barracks" into a town watch style line of buildings, where you could recruit the militia units (since militia needs some training). Instead the foreign units could be recruited as a AOR unit, based on culture. So when you first take over a place, you can't recruit much of your own cultures units, but have access to some of the units native to the culture that you took over. Then as the settlements culture starts to change to your own, these units start fading out, and instead you begin to be able to recruit your own?
Again, this'd probably also help the AI, as they'd always have something to produce. I don't think they're that good at beelining to culture up a new place.

[k/t]

Post #5 updated.

Ok, all of the main stats are done for all units. I've also done the unit sizes, the morale and the charge distances. I'll have a look at the ground bonuses tomorrow.

Then comes the EDB.

[AuroN2]

i imagine about slingers you could import the attack animations from rome?

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Huh, this sounds pretty kewl, looking forward to the future release!

[k/t]

Ok, I've done the ground bonuses. I hope to do the formations tomorrow, and then the EDU will be ready.

[Loger]

Oh boy, inegrating BGR IV would be the icing on the cake

Looking forward to this!

[PerXX]

Once you get the stats of the EDU ready, will you be providing a preview, or will you wait until everything is done, before releasing anything?