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Thread: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (released)

  1. #1

    Default RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (released)

    DOWNLOAD HERE: https://www.mediafire.com/?7m5e1eylidplhde

    EDIT: 4 JUNE 2014 - Added fixed models for the infamous five (they now have shields strapped to their backs), thanks to Lord Derfel (thank him on post 205 on page 11).

    EDIT: 26 APRIL 2013 - Added an even newer version of RC 2.0, I think. And also added the guide to RR instead of the old RC...

    EDIT: 5 FEBRUARY 2013 - Added newest version of RC 2.0 manual instead of the older one that I had posted.

    EDIT: 11 NOVEMBER 2012.

    ALL THE FILES YOU NEED ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST. THEY SUPERSEDE THE ONES IN ANY OTHER POST. THE FILES AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST ARE THE ONES I USE, AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS.

    FOR A FULL LIST OF CHANGES SEE BELOW. I VAGUELY REMEMBER SOME CHANGES I'VE MADE TO THE MOST RECENT FILES (11-11-2012).

    ################################################################

    HOW TO INSTALL: download the files. Extract to its own folder. Make back-ups of your original versions of the files. Now cut and paste the downloaded files in the folders where your original files were. To remove RR/RC, just paste your original files over the downloaded ones. If you have trouble following the instructions, try the automated method in post #160.

    descr_mount, descr_campaign_db, export_descr_units.txt, export_descr_buildings.txt and descr_projectile.txt are located in D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Last_Kingdom\data

    battle_models goes in D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Last_Kingdom\data\unit_models

    descr_strat.txt, campaign_script.txt and descr_mercenaries.txt are found in D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Last_Kingdom\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign

    descr_regions.txt is found in D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Last_Kingdom\data\world\maps\base

    The retired_saxhuscarls, saxon_huscarls and huscarls_bodyguards meshes go in D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Last_Kingdom\data\unit_models\_units\saxons
    The hirdmenn and huskarl_axemen meshes go in D:\SEGA\Medieval 2 Total War\mods\Last_Kingdom\data\unit_models\_units\vikings

    #################################################################

    I thought I'd put the Acknowledgements section in a more visible place:

    Thanks to danova and everyone involved in it for the mod (after taking so long to make some minor changes, I can better understand how long it took to make the whole thing), to PB for his RR/RC files and permission, and Heathen Storm for his javelin cavalry. Thanks to Fred Putz for the Carl AI economy script.

    I forget which version of the script I used in the files in this post, but all the versions are available in post #78. "Giving Carl to rebels might actually cause them to become a force to be feared."

    Thanks to Lord Derfel for the fixed two handed axe units.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let me know how you find the changes and if I've made any mistakes.

    Things I've done:

    ORIGINAL RELEASE:

    implemented RR/RC principles, meaning:
    1) good units will now slaughter crappy ones - don't rely on militia to hold the centre of your line; they won't
    2) good units are much rarer
    3) reduced AI unit spam
    removed recruitable generals
    units wearing leather lamellar now need a blacksmith to be recruited, which means the second barracks level and a large town
    moved master smith from large city to city - it is required for the third barracks level
    units wearing mail now need a master smith to be recruited - if you're norse, grow a city chop chop if you want good units; if you're norman, GET PARIS!
    foundry now required for the highest barracks - the royal armoury doesn't allow any new units, but it increases replenishment rates
    horse breeders now also give a trade bonus
    fixed leidangr archers and spearmen being recruited from regional barracks instead of norse archers and norse warband, as well as a lot of other AOR units
    factions recruit more easily from regional barracks in their home regions than from regional barracks in other regions
    halved the conversion bonuses of colonies
    priests toned down
    removed the weapon upgrade
    some units now need a more advanced barracks (but all units can be recruited from cities (first stone wall))
    unit pool replenishment speed reduced significantly
    unit pools reduced for high-end units
    levy & militia units (identifiable through their free upkeep) have 150 men/unit if infantry, 180/unit if spearmen, 120 if skirmishers or missile
    professional and semi-professional units have 120/unit if infantry, 150/unit if spearmen, 120 if skirmishers or missile, 60 if cavalry (80 for the irish cavalry)
    feudal units have 100/unit if infantry, 50 if cavalry (except for unhorsed norman knights, who have 80)
    bodyguards reduced in number
    spear and sword miles units of the east franks replenish faster due to being the standing army of an empire
    peasant militia- and militia-grade units need 60% culture to be recruited, average and superior units 70%, elite and exceptional ones 80%
    east franks' king's purse changed to 7500 from 2500 - there's an empire behind those few provinces shown in the game
    normans' king's purse changed to 3000 from 1200 and they start with 5000 instead of 2000 gold - a rich and powerful duchy, that hopefully will invade england
    reduced the plunder script by 90%
    colonies now auto-destroy when the settlement is taken by a faction with a different culture
    pagan temples now auto-destroy when the settlement is taken by a christian faction
    lightly-equipped skirmishers have move_speed_mod 1.05 to make them more effective and let them stay out of trouble
    fixed harald greyfell's spawning on a river
    removed the swords-only norman bodyguard and used only the one with lances and swords
    fixed Kaupang's not being able to upgrade
    EDIT: MAY 20, 2012
    fixed screwed up ship recruitment - the early ports now allow the weak boats instead of the strong ones
    fixed iceland's dubious culture assignation - instead of 90% irish, it is now 90% heretic
    fixed various adding and subtracting mistakes I made in the EDU
    unhorsed norman knights have 100 soldiers now too

    EDIT: MAY 22, 2012
    EDU updated to RC 2.0. Notable changes: axes now have 2 defense instead of 3, and heavy armour gives an attack delay penalty
    I changed javelin skirmishers to move_speed_mod 1.1, while archer skirmishers remain with 1.05. This is not an RC idea, but it seemed like a good one.
    I also fixed some more mistakes I had made

    EDIT: NOVEMBER 11, 2012
    Changed the way high-quality unit bonuses were distributed. This was the current way:

    Superior: +1/+2
    Elite: +3/+3
    Exceptional: +4/+4

    Superior spear: +1/+1
    Elite spear: +2/+2
    Exceptional spear: +3/+3


    This is what I changed them to:

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t
    And changing the quality bonuses would be good, too. We can keep the total amount of bonus points but skew the distribution towards defense:

    Superior: +1/+2
    Elite: +2/+4
    Exceptional: +3/+5

    Superior spear: +0/+2
    Elite spear: +1/+3
    Exceptional spear: +2/+4


    This will prolong battles and increase the staying power of good units pitted against crappy ones. A lower attack isn't a problem anyway, since chevrons will raise it but not defense (because CA is stupid and decided to remove a logical feature in Kingdoms).
    Lowered unit replenishment rates, as they were far too high. Lowered mercenary replenishment rates too.
    Fixed some more mistakes in the EDU.
    Removed the secondary weapon entries for the infamous five: Heorthgeneats, Saxon Huscarls, Retired Huscarls, Hirdmenn (x2) and Huskarl Axemen, and also changed their entries in unit_models_db. They now charge properly, without stopping to switch weapons.
    Removed fire arrows.
    Ships now take several turns to build.
    Roads now take longer to build and require higher levels of cities.
    Removed an instance of weapon upgrade from descr_strat.
    Lowered the King's Purse of the Normans and the East Franks.
    Made the date display as years above the world map and as turns above the treasury indicator.
    Changed the culture levels of the rebel settlements in Iceland again, since the 90% Heretic levels weren't recognized by the game. Perhaps there's a hardcoded limit, or I screwed something up. Everyone should check their games to see the culture levels in Iceland.

    Known issues: the shields of the infamous five now float horizontally, cutting through the soldiers. It is purely a graphical problem, and it does not interfere with their combat performance.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    plans for the future:
    make archers recruitable from the archery buildings, make cavalry recruitable from horse buildings - this will better show the high degree to which military
    capability is dependent upon economic prowess
    put in germanicu5's looting script
    remove animation of 1h axe & shield use by saxon huscarls, huskarl axemen, heorthgeneats, hirdmenn and retired huscarls - they should have their shields
    strapped to their backs and use their axes only two-handed, but i don't know how to do this - will fiddling with the models_db file be enough?
    EDIT: MAY 20, 2012
    introducing an archery building is stupid, so I'm not planning to do that anymore
    I intend to use the descr_projectile file made by PB for the RR/RC Compilation, once he gives permission, upon one of his once-every-four-months visits to the forum
    introduce the Standardized Unit Pricing System (SUPS) - see it and tell me your thoughts here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...8#post11486208


    ---------------------------END OF RELEVANT INFORMATION---------------------------


    Contents of original post (for historical interest only):

    I started a few campaigns in this mod (and almost finished one), and I really like it, but I find the stat system in need of adjustment. To that end, I have begun work on redoing the stats of every unit according to the rules of the Real Recruitment/Real Combat system developed by Point Blank.

    I've done the Hordaland, Vestfold, Denmark and Viking units already (heh, they all use the same units), but I still have to do the morale and men/unit numbers as well as the cost. Then I have to boot up the game and check the sizes of their shields in order to fine-tune the shield value and the move_speed and heat penalty. Then I have to do the terrain bonuses.

    My problem is that I know very little about this period and region, so I have trouble deciding of what quality each unit should be. I have to rely on what the figurines look like in battles, the description in descr_unit and Wikipedia. If anyone who knows more than me about the time and place of this mod wants to help, progress will occur faster. Or at least I can list my ideas for each unit's quality and people can weigh in. And I can ask questions about various other things.

    Here are some of the things I am going to change:

    armourers required to recruit units wearing the armour provided by a specific armourer

    farms needed to recruit militia and peasant units, otherwise they would be hunting to provide for their families (in both these cases, you still recruit the units from the barracks, but you also need the other buildings to be present)

    remove weapon upgrade (unbalances the RC system)

    reduce unit pools and replenishment rate (this will eliminate unit spam, increase the amount of small battles and make big battles more decisive)

    increase training time for elite and exceptional units (you can't just slap mail on a serf and call him a knight)

    higher barracks have additional units and/or bigger unit pools and/or higher replenishment rates (there will always be a benefit to upgrading your barracks)

    sword units cost a lot more (swords are a lot more expensive to make than axes or spears)

    units with horses meant for charging cost a lot more (specially bred and trained horses are very expensive)

    increase east franks' king's purse (and also maybe reduce denmark a bit, hordaland and vestfold a bit more - scandinavia is poor - maybe reduce growth rates) (the east franks should be a rich empire, not a bunch of losers who get spanked by the danes every time)

    colonies auto-destroy when conquered by a faction with a different culture (i don't know if they auto-destroy when the AI conquers a settlement, but they don't for me - they should always auto-destroy, the way churches in Stainless Steel and culture buildings in Third Age do)

    remove recruitable generals (I don't like the feature, and the AI might screw itself up by running out of family members - adoptions and children provide sufficient generals as it is)

    make militia and peasant units recruitable at 60% culture, average units at 70% and good units (superior, elite and exceptional) at 80%

    fewer bowmen per unit for scandinavians, more for the welsh

    something similar with javeliners for the irish (they used javelins a lot, but I don't know too much about faction strengths and weaknesses in this part of the world during this time)

    reduce conversion rates, at least those of "priests". In fact, I might take them out all together. It's one thing to preach to people and have them change their religion, but they're not going to change their lifestyle, language and way of warfare because some unwashed guy sang them some hymns from another country.



    I will continue to do some work every day (or nearly ), and I hope that in a month or two at most I'll be done.


    I will attach the guides to RR and RC that I have so those who aren't familiar with the system can better understand what I am trying to do.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by k/t; May 28, 2015 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom

    Here's my classification of Scandinavian units this far:

    atgeirmenn - superior, light mail
    huskarl swordsmen - elite, heavy mail
    huskarl axemen - elite, heavy mail
    hirdmenn - exceptional, heavy mail
    vikingr - superior, leather lamellar
    leidang spearmen - peasant militia, gambeson
    leidang archers - peasant militia, no armour
    berserkers - exceptional, lock_morale, fanatic, wolf skin
    herklaedi spearmen - average, light mail
    riddarar - average, light mail
    hladir archers - superior, leather lamellar
    norse swordsmen - superior, light mail

    There is another entry for Hirdmenn called HirdmennB, it's not a general_unit and only the Normans are listed as owners. I can't remember the beginning of my Norman campaign, so what's the deal with it?

    Like I said, if any knowledgeable people want to help me compile such a list for every faction/culture, things will go much faster. And discuss my intended changes too. I want as much historical accuracy as possible.
    Last edited by k/t; January 09, 2012 at 01:57 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    As mentioned in the SS thread, I'm very much looking forward to this.
    RR/RC adds so much to any mod, it's hard to play without it.

    A few comments:

    - Good to see weaponupgrades go. Replace these with armour upgrades, even if there's no visual change? Evolving your faction and units is a big part of the game, after all.

    I'll see if I can't find the time to help you out a bit with some of the lists.

    - Don't dismiss archery amongst the Scandinavians. The bow was an important weapon in Viking warfare, perhaps more so than many other factions on the British mainland. Few would go raiding without some sort of ranged weaponry, though the throwing spear was even more important. Some sort of javelin unit (or adding javelins to the vikings perhaps, like the Lithuanian Noble Sons infantry in SS?). I'd say for the Scandinavian factions, use:

    Infantry: High
    Archers: Normal
    Cavalry: Low

    - I'd keep the bards/priests in. Wandering priests certainly had their fair share of the conversion of the Vikings. I can accept lowering their strength though, as such things obviously do take time.

  4. #4

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Yeah, I wanted to have units like Viking Axemen and maybe the Huskarls throw a javelin or two before fighting, but I don't know how to do that.

    I know the bow was used by Scandinavians, but they don't have any archer units in their roster. The Leidangr Archers are poorly trained conscripts according to the description. Maybe I could make the Hladir Archers available to all the Norse factions, and change their name to something else, since apparently Hladir refers to a specific region.

    The armour upgrades work in SS because that game is set over 500 years. New technologies became available and new methods of warfare developed in order to use them. In this mod, heavy mail is the end-all when it comes to armour. In 874 or in 934, it's still heavy mail. One could argue that the poorly-equipped units would scavenge good equipment from a defeated foe, but also the crappy units would be sent to their homes for harvest season, and the next time you called the peasants up to arms you wouldn't necessarily have the same guys come back. Also, not having armour upgrades helps keep the difference between farmers and professional warriors large, as it should be. I also find it liberating to not have to worry about upgrading units. After playing SS and TA for so long and having my troops feel incomplete without armour upgrades and chevrons of experience granted by this and this building, I get a lot of pleasure out of just recruiting units and shipping them off to war. I fully agree with the evolving of units, and I guarantee that chasing experience chevrons is going to become an engrossing pastime. It always is for me, and in RR/RC experience really matters. When a good unit has an attack of 6 or 7, increasing that by 1 or 2 has a big effect. When a crappy unit starts with 11 attack, adding 1 doesn't really matter that much. Crappy units will have much lower morale, and you'll want to get them chevrons too, since they benefit much more from the increased attack and morale than good units. Especially since crappy units will constitute the bulk of your army.

    I wouldn't have a problem with "priests" if they converted religion, but they convert culture. Ideally, there would be a greater spillover effect from nearby regions of another culture: such border regions would have a maximum of 90% of your faction's culture due to interactions (trading, coexisting, intermarriage) with the other culture. Right now, if a neighbour of another culture plants a "priest" or two in your territory, he's gonna screw you over because in 10-15 turns you won't be able to recruit from that region anymore. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've seen the AI produce many "priests", and I don't think I've seen the AI send them into the territory of a faction they weren't at war with.

  5. #5

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    #####ANGLO-SAXONS#####

    ceorl archers - peasant militia, no armour, short bow/axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    fyrdmen - peasant militia, no armour, spear, small round, rural levy/militia

    scipflotan - militia, no armour, axe, small round, militia

    butseacarls - superior, leather lamellar, axe, small round, professional

    druguthas - average, gambeson, spear, small round, semi-professional

    thegns - average, partial light mail, arming sword, small round, semi-professional

    ealdormen - superior, heavy mail, spear, kite, professional

    saxon huscarls - exceptional, heavy mail, 2h axe, slung kite, feudal

    heorthgeneats - exceptional, heavy mail, 2h axe, slung kite, feudal

    aethelingas - elite, partial heavy mail, light sword, small round, feudal

    ######################




    #####IRISH#####

    irish dartmen - militia, no armour, javelin / axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    gaeceitherne - average, no armour, javelin / axe, buckler, militia/semi-professional

    cliathairi spearmen - militia, no armour, spear, buckler, rural levy/militia

    bonnachts spearmen - average, gambeson, spear, small round, militia/semi-professional

    ceitherne - peasant militia, no armour, axe, buckler, rural levy/militia

    gaelic warrior - superior, light mail, arming sword, small round, professional

    tuamornaghta - elite, partial light mail, 2h axe, no shield, professional

    marcshulaidh - average, no armour, javelin / axe & small round, semi-professional

    arras noble - exceptional, heavy mail, arming sword, small round, feudal

    arras bodyguard - exceptional, heavy mail, arming sword, small round, feudal

    ######################




    #####CELTS######

    celtic hunters - peasant militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    welsh skirmishers - peasant militia, no armour, javelin/axe, buckler, rural levy/militia

    spear militia - militia, no armour, spear, small round, militia

    armoured warband - average, leather lamellar, spear, small round, semi-professional

    celtic berserkers - elite, no armour, arming sword, small round, professional

    arras warriors - superior, partial light mail, 2h axe, slung shield, semi-professional/professional

    celtic nobles - exceptional, partial heavy mail, arming sword, small round, feudal

    celtic warriors - militia, no armour, axe, small round, rural levy/militia - what's the deal with these guys? why are they mercs in scotland's roster? they don't exist in custom battles

    curadha - average, gambeson, axe, small round, mercenary

    highland clansmen - average, gambeson, arming sword, small round, semi-professional

    ridire bodyguard - exceptional, partial heavy mail, light sword, small round, feudal

    welsh bandits - militia, no armour, axe, small round, militia

    saerhwyr - superior, no armour, missile longbow / axe , slung / small round, semi-professional

    dumnonian cavalry - exceptional, partial heavy mail, light sword, small round, feudal

    ######################




    #####NORMANS#####

    norman archers - militia, gambeson, skirmish war bow/knife, no shield, rural levy/militia

    norman crossbowmen - average, partial light mail, wooden crossbow/knife, no shield, semi-professional

    flemish spearmen - militia, gambeson, spear, small round, militia/semi-professional

    sergeant spearmen - superior, light mail, spear, kite, professional

    norman infantry - average, partial light mail, arming sword, small round, semi-professional

    norman foot soldiers - elite, partial heavy mail, arming sword, kite, feudal

    breton axemen - average, gambeson, axe, small round, militia/semi-professional (local)

    unhorsed norman knights - exceptional, heavy mail, arming sword, kite, feudal

    norman retainers - average, gambeson, spear / light sword, kite, semi-professional

    norman knights - exceptional, heavy mail, spear / arming sword, kite, feudal

    norman bodyguard - exceptional, heavy mail, spear / arming sword, kite, feudal

    norman bodyguard 2 - exceptional, heavy mail, sword, kite, feudal - TO BE REMOVED

    ######################




    #####EAST FRANKS#####

    coloni - peasant militia, no armour, skirmish short bow / axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    charlemagne's longbowmen - superior, gambeson, missile longbow / knife, no shield, professional

    liberi spearmen - peasant militia, no armour, spear, small round, rural levy/militia

    miles spearmen - superior, light mail, spear, small round, professional

    heerban - militia, no armour, axe, small round, rural levy/militia

    spatamen - exceptional, heavy mail, longsword, small round, feudal

    miles infantry - superior, light mail, arming sword, small round, professional

    milites - elite, partial light mail, light sword, small round, professional

    scola - exceptional, partial heavy mail, light sword, small round, feudal

    ######################




    #####SCANDINAVIANS######

    leidang archers - peasant militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    hladir archers - superior, leather lamellar, skirmish war bow/axe, no shield, professional

    leidang spearmen - peasant militia, no armour, spear, small round, rural levy/militia

    herklaedi spearmen - average, light mail, spear, small round, semi-professional/militia

    viking axemen - superior, leather lamellar, axe, small round, semi-professional/professional

    berserkers - exceptional, wolf pelt, arming sword, small round, professional

    atgeirmenn - superior, light mail, swordstaff, no shield, professional

    norse swordsmen - superior, light mail, arming sword, small round, feudal

    huskarl swordsmen - elite, heavy mail, arming sword, small round, feudal

    huskarl axemen - elite, heavy mail, 2h axe, slung shield, feudal

    hirdmenn - exceptional, heavy mail, 2h axe, slung shield, feudal

    hirdmennB - exceptional, heavy mail, 2h axe, slung shield, feudal

    riddarar - average, light mail, light sword, small round, semi-professional/professional

    ######################




    #####AOR######

    saxon archers - peasant militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield - ENGLAND

    geburas - militia, no armour, spear, small round - ENGLAND

    churl warband - militia, no armour, axe, small round - ENGLAND

    gesibas - elite, partial heavy mail, axe, small round - ENGLAND



    deisi dartmen - average, no armour, javelin/axe, no shield - IRELAND

    gaelic spearmen - average, no armour, spear, small round - IRELAND

    cliathairi gaenaghta - average, light mail, spear, small round - IRELAND

    gall-gaedhil - superior, light mail, spear, small round - IRELAND

    irish warband - militia, no armour, axe, buckler - IRELAND



    hunters - militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield - SCOTLAND/WALES

    welsh javelinmen - peasant militia, no armour, javelin/axe, buckler - SCOTLAND/WALES

    gaelaiche - militia, no armour, spear, small round - SCOTLAND/WALES

    curadha - average, gambeson, axe, small round - SCOTLAND/WALES

    welsh bandits - militia, no armour, axe, small round - SCOTLAND/WALES



    frankish archers - militia, no armour, missile war bow/knife, no shield - NORMANDY

    flemish warband - average, no armour, spear, small round - NORMANDY

    breton axemen - average, gambeson, axe, small round - NORMANDY



    huntsmen - militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield - FRANCE

    lombards spearmen - average, no armour, spear, small round - FRANCE

    german axemen - average, no armour, axe, small round - FRANCE



    norse archers - peasant militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield - SCANDINAVIA

    norse warband - militia, no armour, spear, small round - SCANDINAVIA

    norse axemen - superior, partial light mail, axe, small round - SCANDINAVIA

    ######################




    #####MERCENARIES######

    saxon mercenaries - militia, no armour, spear, small round - ENGLAND

    lithsmen - superior, partial light mail, axe, small round - ENGLAND

    retired huscarls - exceptional, heavy mail, 2h axe, slung shield - ENGLAND



    mercenary dartmen - average, no armour, javelin/axe, no shield - IRELAND

    irish tribesmen - militia, no armour, axe, small round - IRELAND

    gaelic mercenary - superior, light mail, arming sword, small round - IRELAND



    brythonic hunters - militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield - SCOTLAND/WALES

    brythonic skirmishers - peasant militia, no armour, javelin/axe, buckler - SCOTLAND/WALES

    welsh longbowmen - superior, no armour, missile longbow/axe, small round - SCOTLAND/WALES

    chodaoer - militia, no armour, javelin/axe, buckler - start not skirmishing, why? because they're picts? - SCOTLAND/WALES

    pictish spearmen - militia, no armour, spear, buckler - SCOTLAND/WALES

    celtic warband - militia, no armour, axe, small round - SCOTLAND/WALES

    brythonic brigands - militia, no armour, axe, small round - SCOTLAND/WALES



    flemish mercenary - average, no armour, spear, small round - NORMANDY

    frankish axemen - average, leather lamellar, axe, small round - NORMANDY



    german tribesmen - superior, light scale, axe, small round - FRANCE



    scandinavian hunters - peasant militia, no armour, skirmish short bow/axe, no shield - SCANDINAVIA

    sami warriors - militia, no armour, spear, small round - SCANDINAVIA

    fardrenghi - average, leather lamellar, axe, small round - SCANDINAVIA

    viking karls - superior, light mail, spear, small round - SCANDINAVIA

    ######################




    #####FYRD#####

    hundradeflocc - militia, no armour, javelin/axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    geoguthas - average, gambeson, spear, small round, rural levy/militia

    ceorlwerod - superior, light mail, light sword, small round, rural levy/militia

    ######################




    #####MAGYARS#####

    princely retinue - exceptional, light lamellar/scale, missile composite bow/light sword, no shield, feudal

    magyar cavalry - superior, no armour, skirmish composite bow/spear, no shield, semi-professional

    kabar cavalry - average, no armour, skirmish composite bow/axe, no shield, semi-professional

    ######################
    Last edited by k/t; January 30, 2012 at 12:10 AM.

  6. #6
    Celtichugs123's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Uhm, I believe RR/RC is/was already in the Mod.
    Vikingr

    The Last Kingdom


    “For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more--remembering my own sins and follies; and realize that men's hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words.”
    - J.R.R Tolkien

  7. #7

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtichugs123 View Post
    Uhm, I believe RR/RC is/was already in the Mod.
    It's not.
    The unit stats are completely random (or atleast have nothing to do with the RR/RC system), and the recruitment system also doesn't match the RR/RC system, but rather uses the Kingdoms: Britannia campaign system.

  8. #8

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    My problem is that I know very little about this period and region, so I have trouble deciding of what quality each unit should be. I have to rely on what the figurines look like in battles, the description in descr_unit and Wikipedia. If anyone who knows more than me about the time and place of this mod wants to help, progress will occur faster. Or at least I can list my ideas for each unit's quality and people can weigh in. And I can ask questions about various other things.
    I would love to help if i could. Realistically, Vikings would have had probably 3 different unit sizes for most of their units, at least the early tier units. This is because Vikings gradually increased the size of Raiding parties from a few dozen to a few thousand. The turtle mod for The Third Age uses a system like this very effectively.

    I agree the Franks would have a large income compared to other factions especially after Charlemagne did so much to improve the infrastructure of the Franks. They were ahead of most other factions in this regard. And much of their realm is off the map, so a couple regions should have a extra boost to reflect this missing section.

    The first Viking Raids, and Raiders were in fact mostly spearmen. You can find this argument in several sources about the Viking Age. Norsemen likely had some spear throwing units. Normans at least had slingers. Normans should either have a bigger map of the area or a income boost to also reflect the missing sections of Normandy, after all by the time of William, Normandy alone, this small duchy, was one of the richest and most powerful nations in Europe.

    If you have weapon upgrade option, and you want to get rid of it or minimize it, you can make up for it somewhat with improved training to give a unit or two any combat improvements.

    I do not know about getting rid of recruitable generals, some factions with a more organized military like the Franks would more likely than not have such a feature than other factions.

    You could make the Viking faction archers a smaller unit. I might suggest removing all the effective against armor option for ALL archers since none technically were yet, being before the advent of the Bodkin arrow. Long Range Archers should only be welsh long bowmen, though maybe the normans had a longer range than most or average archers if that is possible. This would be much appreciated and be more realistic to have a difference between actual long bowmen and just really good archers with a slight range improvement over other factions, which is what the normans and perhaps even franks should probably have.

    Beserkirs should have bear skins or pelts, that is how they got their name, so though some may have been skin only (which is more of a woad warrior or naked fanatic type unit than a true beserkir), unless something had changed radically from other Germanic Beserkirs, the Vikings should be the same as them with bear skins. This would give them a decent tough skin cloth armor, though they probably had parts of their body bare, such as the chest.

    Wolf pelts for Beserkirs were a different unit called Wolf Warriors essentially in english but were called Ulfheonar in old Germanic.

    Viking spearmen at least the ones above peasant class, would probably have had the coned metal helmet, a long spear with a broad war head and a large round shield. Whether the spear heads were quite as large as the Saxons, I can not say off hand, though they probably did not develop the flanges that later saxon spears had. They would have a fairly high attack and cloth armor, shield and metal helmet defense. Any additional defense boost would be because of training and skill. So the viking spearmen would probably be slightly higher attack than any other spearmen, with more due to skill and ferocity than purely differences in weapons. Axmen unit raiders would be in smaller units than the spearmen.

    You could have a smaller Archer unit for the Vikings made up of better trained troops.

    I would recommend 2 unit sizes for the spearmen units, early and late, with the late being larger. And perhaps 3 unit sizes for Viking Raiders from the small squad raiding parties to the larger settlement invader units of the latest time frame.

    Swords, some swords would in fact be effective against armor, if they were large enough, such as two handed swords and some large one handed heavy longswords, they would be heavy and tough enough that even if they did not cut the shear weight would add to the blunt force trauma effect. Small and short swords would not. ( I would make the Frankish Spatha men probably anti armor able and definitely the Norman foot knights, how much sense does it make that a knight can not fight a knight effectively?) All in all, the Vikings would likely have more anti armor units than most other factions.

    The Irish factions already have several javelineer units.

    Any axe above a small hand axe, and even that is possible, would also have a blunt force trauma effect and be effective against armor.

    I would probably also use Heathen's realistic cavalry sub mod, this also gives the Franks and Normans javelin knights which is realistic and consistent with other resources and mods. There was even a RTW mod of Norman invasion and they still had javelin horsemen in that, though by that time they may have been using the more traditional couched lance and going away from Javelins.

    Mostly I would love to see you differentiate units MORE, too many cost comparably or have too similar stats to make sense of or find a proper place for. All the faction axemen I would recommend finding some differences in so they are not all such copies of each other. Give the Saxon faction axemen less armor and a large number like it is already but maybe slightly more. Fyrdsmen are militia spearmen, anything spearmen or thegns above this would likely have chainmail byrnes (long chainmail coats).

    Give some axemen higher armor, some anti armor, some higher attack, different costs. Anything to make them all more different then they are. If you add Select Fyrd they might have more armor, be more disciplined a little better trained with higher attack and def and a higher cost and upkeep. Great Fyrd would have less training and attack and defense (probably an attack of about 1 and defense of about 5 or 6 at first). They probably would not have a helmet and maybe not even a hat, and probably no shield. You may opt to make some of the higher units smaller in size or make 2 of them for the Anglo Saxon factions

    Anglo Saxon Rosters would look something like this:

    Hirdmen (Hearth men, loyal professional men of the king or lord), Great swords or 2 hand axes, well armored shields or shields worn on the shoulder or back
    Ceorl (akin to semi professional freemen), short axemen, shields
    Fyrdmen (basically militia), spear, shield, little or no armor other than cloth
    Thegns (professional warriors), long swords or a axe (larger then the ceorl axe), well armored, shields
    Select Fyrd (between Fyrdmen and Thegns, some Select Fyrd could have made the Thegn grade, Select Fyrd are chosen freemen picked individually rather than by a draw of lots or conscript or draft type levy system.), Long spear (maybe with a bigger or better spear head than the Fyrdmen have), perhaps some armor, and likely at least decent helmets.
    Ship Sokes or Sokes men were a later unit similar to marines, saex or long saex, shields, maybe helmets or leather caps, cloth armor
    Great Fyrd (emergency levied troops not a general levy, so they probably received even less training and capable weapons). Little or no armor, small cheap spears with small spear heads and a fairly short staff compared to other spears, may or may not have a shield at all.

    Huscarls - Professional heavy infantry
    Lithsmen - mercenary armored marine like units

    Some units would have Saex's. The saex had many different types from short and thin to long and broad.

    Normans:

    Slingers - Wessex may have had slingers as well and probably larger units than the normans

    Breton units of some light horse perhaps, and some spearmen. Normans historically relied heavily on Breton for allies and troops when invading England. This is not that well reflected in this mod yet with basically only one Breton unit, the axmen.


    Vikings:

    Spear Throwing troops
    improved archers for general factions
    remove the atgeirs from the AI Viking faction and perhaps give them another new unit
    Perhaps a unique new viking unit for the Viking Normans if they do not christianize.

    Welsh:

    Could probably have another horse unit and another archer unit.

    Irish:
    They need a unique unit or two for each of the Irish Factions
    Last edited by Cincinatus; January 12, 2012 at 03:17 PM.
    "It is worth while for those who disdain all human things for money, and who suppose that there is no room either for great honor or virtue, except where wealth is found, to listen to his story."
    - Livy 3.26

  9. #9
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincinatus View Post
    I would love to help if i could. Realistically, Vikings would have had probably 3 different unit sizes for most of their units, at least the early tier units. This is because Vikings gradually increased the size of Raiding parties from a few dozen to a few thousand. The turtle mod for The Third Age uses a system like this very effectively.

    I agree the Franks would have a large income compared to other factions especially after Charlemagne did so much to improve the infrastructure of the Franks. They were ahead of most other factions in this regard. And much of their realm is off the map, so a couple regions should have a extra boost to reflect this missing section.
    A good way to combat that is create an off-map trade resource - this could also be done with the Normans, and also the Norwegians (trade with the Swedes and balts).

    The first Viking Raids, and Raiders were in fact mostly spearmen. You can find this argument in several sources about the Viking Age. Norsemen likely had some spear throwing units. Normans at least had slingers. Normans should either have a bigger map of the area or a income boost to also reflect the missing sections of Normandy, after all by the time of William, Normandy alone, this small duchy, was one of the richest and most powerful nations in Europe.
    I agree with most of this as well, although the Viking factions should not have an emphasis on spear raiders because the mod begins about 100 years after the raids start, so all of the kingdoms began focusing on true warriors rather then just raiders. Normans did have slingers but slings are extremely hard to implement into M2TW. Norsemen definitely used a lot of javelins, in fact quite a few of their troops should also have javelins.

    I do not know about getting rid of recruitable generals, some factions with a more organized military like the Franks would more likely than not have such a feature than other factions.
    ...You can recruit generals? 0.o
    But it's probably historically accurate to have that, seeing as you shouldn't wait for a general of the royal family to come out to have a governor - a king could recruit a governor from any town.

    You could make the Viking faction archers a smaller unit. I might suggest removing all the effective against armor option for ALL archers since none technically were yet, being before the advent of the Bodkin arrow. Long Range Archers should only be welsh long bowmen, though maybe the normans had a longer range than most or average archers if that is possible. This would be much appreciated and be more realistic to have a difference between actual long bowmen and just really good archers with a slight range improvement over other factions, which is what the normans and perhaps even franks should probably have.
    I say you should keep the effective against armor for archers, if you're going to be reducing the defense and attack of everything, they already will be nerfed a lot - I don't want my archers to have no effect at all Archers were very powerful during these ages and should be treated as such. The welsh should not be the only ones with longbowmen - the Germanic longbow originated in Scandinavia. The Norsemen had a LONG tradition of longbow archery. Actually the Normans should have inferior archers. They largely abandoned the use of the bow for the crossbow towards the later period.

    Viking spearmen at least the ones above peasant class, would probably have had the coned metal helmet, a long spear with a broad war head and a large round shield. Whether the spear heads were quite as large as the Saxons, I can not say off hand, though they probably did not develop the flanges that later saxon spears had. They would have a fairly high attack and cloth armor, shield and metal helmet defense. Any additional defense boost would be because of training and skill. So the viking spearmen would probably be slightly higher attack than any other spearmen, with more due to skill and ferocity than purely differences in weapons. Axmen unit raiders would be in smaller units than the spearmen.
    Actually... they should be something along these lines or these.

    I would recommend 2 unit sizes for the spearmen units, early and late, with the late being larger. And perhaps 3 unit sizes for Viking Raiders from the small squad raiding parties to the larger settlement invader units of the latest time frame.
    Again, I wouldn't recommend this. They were already well into the raiding years.

    Swords, some swords would in fact be effective against armor, if they were large enough, such as two handed swords and some large one handed heavy longswords, they would be heavy and tough enough that even if they did not cut the shear weight would add to the blunt force trauma effect. Small and short swords would not. ( I would make the Frankish Spatha men probably anti armor able and definitely the Norman foot knights, how much sense does it make that a knight can not fight a knight effectively?) All in all, the Vikings would likely have more anti armor units than most other factions.
    Sounds pretty right. So the only ones I can really think of would be the Saxons, Vikings and Franks. The celts wouldn't have this as the Celtic swords were actually somewhat small compared to Nordic swords.

    I would probably also use Heathen's realistic cavalry sub mod, this also gives the Franks and Normans javelin knights which is realistic and consistent with other resources and mods. There was even a RTW mod of Norman invasion and they still had javelin horsemen in that, though by that time they may have been using the more traditional couched lance and going away from Javelins.
    Permission is given if you'd like to use it. It already balances the Magyars out based on RR/RC stats, and the attack for the knights as well (but not the defense).

    Mostly I would love to see you differentiate units MORE, too many cost comparably or have too similar stats to make sense of or find a proper place for. All the faction axemen I would recommend finding some differences in so they are not all such copies of each other. Give the Saxon faction axemen less armor and a large number like it is already but maybe slightly more. Fyrdsmen are militia spearmen, anything spearmen or thegns above this would likely have chainmail byrnes (long chainmail coats).
    I too would like to see that.

    Anglo Saxon Rosters would look something like this:

    Hirdmen (Hearth men, loyal professional men of the king or lord), Great swords or 2 hand axes, well armored shields or shields worn on the shoulder or back
    Ceorl (akin to semi professional freemen), short axemen, shields
    Fyrdmen (basically militia), spear, shield, little or no armor other than cloth
    Thegns (professional warriors), long swords or a axe (larger then the ceorl axe), well armored, shields
    Select Fyrd (between Fyrdmen and Thegns, some Select Fyrd could have made the Thegn grade, Select Fyrd are chosen freemen picked individually rather than by a draw of lots or conscript or draft type levy system.), Long spear (maybe with a bigger or better spear head than the Fyrdmen have), perhaps some armor, and likely at least decent helmets.
    Ship Sokes or Sokes men were a later unit similar to marines, saex or long saex, shields, maybe helmets or leather caps, cloth armor
    Great Fyrd (emergency levied troops not a general levy, so they probably received even less training and capable weapons). Little or no armor, small cheap spears with small spear heads and a fairly short staff compared to other spears, may or may not have a shield at all.

    Huscarls - Professional heavy infantry
    Lithsmen - mercenary armored marine like units
    Actually I highly disagree with this... First of all, the Saxons did not have Hiršmenn. That is a Norse institution and although the Norse and Saxons were somewhat similar, this is not one of them. A Saxon's hearth troops is actually called the Hearžweru (pronounced "hearth wer-oo"), or as they are named in this mod, Hearžageneats.
    Fyrdmen should be decently armed. Especially the Select fyrd and Great fyrd - here, I invite you to read this article. It gives great examples and ideas about the Great/Select fyrd and that they really weren't crap levies which is how most mods portray them to be. http://www.regia.org/fyrd2.htm

    Some units would have Saex's. The saex had many different types from short and thin to long and broad.

    Normans:

    Slingers - Wessex may have had slingers as well and probably larger units than the normans

    Breton units of some light horse perhaps, and some spearmen. Normans historically relied heavily on Breton for allies and troops when invading England. This is not that well reflected in this mod yet with basically only one Breton unit, the axmen.
    I could definitely agree with this too. The Normans need some form of Light Horse and an AOR unit would be perfect.

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heišinn Vešr: Total War


  10. #10

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Cool, thanks to both for the information. However, I can't give javelins to units because that's beyond my skills. I can change numbers in Notepad and I have the links to instructions for adding units from one faction to another or from one mod to another, but I can't create units. We have to find already-made ones and steal them. Where did you get the javelin knights? Did you make them? Maybe St Polycarpe has some Norse units we could borrow. I remember he made a new roster for DOTS that was going to be used in SS as well.

    The Normans already have Norman Retainers as light cavalry.

    Hopefully in the next patch the map will be extended to the south and the territories of Normandy and the Franks will be better represented, because I don't know how to add off-map trade resources.

    I'll edit post #5 in the thread with the description of every unit I've done until now. The Fyrdmen are Peasant Militia right now, but I can boost them to Militia if needed.
    Last edited by k/t; January 12, 2012 at 08:47 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    To add off map resources just increase the income of the Southern most units. Heathen, I got Hirdmen from an Osprey book from when the Saxons first started landing in Britain, they were Hearthmen or Hirthmen. You might still have low rung or early tier infantry to give a faction a troop numbers boost until they can afford a good army.

    The retainers are more like medium Calvary, not light cavalry.

    Heathen, I did not mean to imply some units were very crappy, only to differentiate them more. You said 100 years in, is that not yet to the final stage of Viking raids? Then you could justify more than one unit size to reflect this.

    The ipIB mods have such units and one mod takes place at the time of the saxon migrations into Britain and in similar areas as this map anne it is about 400 years earlier, the Conquest of Britain mod.

    The Fyrd were decently armed, but the Select Fyrd were better armed and the Great Fyrd lesser armed. I also did not say they definitely had no shields. I could be wrong exactly the armor the Great Fyrd had, but I doubt either peasants or the state would have good armor sitting around for the masses.

    You can adjust the archer range slightly though yes? So you could have say a unit with a range of 100 meters, one with 400 meters and one with 200 meters? Not an exact number for range p,bjust an example. I just mean range is not simply long range or not in TW, but has actual range designated by some number value that can be adjusted? This gives great latitude for differentiating types and faction archer units. I would think adjusting attack values up or down would be preferable and more realistic than defective against armor though, don't you think so, Heathen?

    Another thing Heathen, I think the Wessex faction should have some Alfred reform inspired faction specific units too. What units would you recommend? Slingers? Sokesmen? (I know he did improve the naval forces and had marine like troops factored in as well.

    The other thing is, the Saxon factions need some ship roster changes. Even if they developed longshi type craft, why s it cheaper with comparable Viking ship stats and available before a lower grade ship that costs more!

    P.S. k/t thanks for the PDF post. I found some units in the Third Age 3.1 rr/rc mod seemed a little off and used this to correct a few units.
    Last edited by Cincinatus; January 13, 2012 at 11:21 AM.
    "It is worth while for those who disdain all human things for money, and who suppose that there is no room either for great honor or virtue, except where wealth is found, to listen to his story."
    - Livy 3.26

  12. #12
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincinatus View Post
    To add off map resources just increase the income of the Southern most units. Heathen, I got Hirdmen from an Osprey book from when the Saxons first started landing in Britain, they were Hearthmen or Hirthmen. You might still have low rung or early tier infantry to give a faction a troop numbers boost until they can afford a good army.

    The retainers are more like medium Calvary, not light cavalry.
    First I just want to say I'm sorry if my post seemed angry or offensive at all. I meant nothing by it
    You're right that Osprey does call them "Hearthmen", but that's the Modern English understanding of the old english word hearžweru. Also, the armies of the Invasion period and the settled period are quite different. During the Invasion, the Saxons were excellent horsemen. Some of the best of the Germanic tribes, in fact. But after they had settled and divided into the Heptarchy (Seven Kingdoms), they lost their horsemenship and rarely used horses in battle. I agree that we could add a low tier infantry unit, definitely... but any form of a "hearth troop" would not be low tier. They probably wouldn't be anything lower than the best of the best.

    Heathen, I did not mean to imply some units were very crappy, only to differentiate them more. You said 100 years in, is that not yet to the final stage of Viking raids? Then you could justify more than one unit size to reflect this.
    Sure, I do agree with this if the mod started just a little bit earlier. But the year that the mod starts, the "Great Heathen Army" descended upon England - a quite large army that was the first known to truly wish to conquer and carve out more territory rather than just raid for money. These men would have come ready for battle, ready to conquer. In fact that army was relatively the same as the armies that came 100 years later, and 150 years later (besides being much more heavily armored).

    The Fyrd were decently armed, but the Select Fyrd were better armed and the Great Fyrd lesser armed. I also did not say they definitely had no shields. I could be wrong exactly the armor the Great Fyrd had, but I doubt either peasants or the state would have good armor sitting around for the masses.
    I never said you thought that mate I would say that the standard fyrd are okay as they are. The Select Fyrd, however, I would use this quote from the article at Regia Anglorum to describe;

    The fyrdmen, on the other hand were a professional warrior class, drawn from amongst the wealthiest men in the country, expecting to face a well equipped, professional enemy army. The evidence we have suggests that helmets, swords and mailshirts had become much more common by the time of Alfred's reforms, and most of the fyrd would have been equipped with at least a helm and sword in addition to their spear, shield and horse. Many would also have possessed a mailshirt.
    And as horses and mounted troops are mentioned, I propose that the Great Fyrd becomes a mounted light cavalry force. They could be armored the same as the standard fyrd just with a simple helmet and spear.

    You can adjust the archer range slightly though yes? So you could have say a unit with a range of 100 meters, one with 400 meters and one with 200 meters? Not an exact number for range p,bjust an example. I just mean range is not simply long range or not in TW, but has actual range designated by some number value that can be adjusted? This gives great latitude for differentiating types and faction archer units. I would think adjusting attack values up or down would be preferable and more realistic than defective against armor though, don't you think so, Heathen?
    Sure, that could be possible. It would require testing but it could certainly be possible.

    Another thing Heathen, I think the Wessex faction should have some Alfred reform inspired faction specific units too. What units would you recommend? Slingers? Sokesmen? (I know he did improve the naval forces and had marine like troops factored in as well.
    I certainly agree. You could have an event that happens when he comes of age that the units become available. Wouldn't be too hard.
    As for units, I'd probably say the Fyrd units mentioned above - when he reorganized the military he focused on the fyrd. His improvement of the ships was pretty much to reorganize it, and either Sokesmen or Lithsmen would be acceptable.

    The other thing is, the Saxon factions need some ship roster changes. Even if they developed longshi type craft, why s it cheaper with comparable Viking ship stats and available before a lower grade ship that costs more!
    I agree, they should be much more expensive. The whole reason the Norse were better at building ships is because their forests were perfect for making them. The English didn't have the massive amounts of forests that Scandinavia did.

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heišinn Vešr: Total War


  13. #13

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Post #5 updated. I'll try to do the East Franks tonight and the Irish tomorrow. That will leave the mercenaries and the Magyars.

    If I make the Fyrdmen into Average-quality units with Partial Light Mail, their availability will have to be considerably lower and their upkeep cost considerably higher, since they'll then be on par with most professional spearmen of the other factions. Or maybe Militia-quality with Leather Lamellar. Their appearance in-game and their description made them sound like junk, so I classified them as Peasant Militia - the second lowest quality level. I'll have to spend more time on Wikipedia.

    In TA RR/RC there are racial bonuses and penalties that get factored in, and several elvish units have a quality higher than the regular maximum (Exceptional) - Special. Keep that in mind when determining unit stats. I can upload the EDU of TA 1.4 RR/RC, if you want.

  14. #14

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    You could potentially borrow units from Dale for the Javelin throwers if no other source for units can be found. I might suggest borrowing a Dale archer unit or two as well, to give factions that need other archers some. The longbowmen unit or the athala unit could be a norman viking good trained archer unit. The Dalesmen might be used for Sokesmen for the saxon factions.

    Thanks Heathen, though I did not think I expressed either ther heaorthganeat or the hirdmen were anything less than elite or better.

    You may need a new cheaper middle unit if Fyrd gets bumped up. Perhaps a veteran Gebura or Geoguthas (young warriors) could be added in. Deoguthas would probably be on par with or a hair better than the select fyrd, while the geoguthas would probably be between the Geburas and the Select Fyrd.
    Last edited by Cincinatus; January 14, 2012 at 06:28 PM.
    "It is worth while for those who disdain all human things for money, and who suppose that there is no room either for great honor or virtue, except where wealth is found, to listen to his story."
    - Livy 3.26

  15. #15

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    While working through the EDU, I found some mercenary Fyrd units. The normally recruitable Fyrdsmen will remain Peasant Militia, but the mercenary ones are:

    hundradeflocc - militia, no armour, javelin/axe, no shield, rural levy/militia

    geoguthas - average, gambeson, spear, small round, rural levy/militia

    ceorlwerod - superior, light mail, light sword, small round, rural levy/militia


    There already is a Sokesman unit, but it's called Scipflotan.


    I am done with all the factions (except for charge distances, morale, spacing and move_speed), so I will start on the AOR units. There seem to be A LOT of pretty much identical units, so I will try to differentiate them as much as possible. I don't know how to address unit costs, so I will have to ask PB. I had some other questions about RC as well.

    Post #5 updated.

  16. #16

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    I would probably make the Geoguthas between 150-190 for upkeep and more then the Geburas but less than the Fyrdsmen recruit cost, since the Fyrdsmen are being changed to a higher quality unit. (It should definitely be cheaper and a bit lower quality than the Deoguthas (or Deguthas) however they spelled it)

    Merc Ceorlwerod, I would leave the same but make any Faction unit of Ceorwerod that can be recruited in settlements a little higher to recruit but a little cheaper to upkeep (maybe half, that merc upkeep is pretty high. But less than Select Fyrd or Thegns, for both costs, I would say.)

    Hundredfloc - if you make this a settlement recruit unit, do the same, raise recruit cost but lower upkeep. Mercs would and should be higher upkeep than native units, and technically probably cheaper to higher/recruit, because native units need equipment and training, something the mercs would not need even though they would be fairly expensive. I would say the expense of raising native units from raw recruits would probably be a little higher than hiring mercs. This IMHO is a more realistic assessment of the difference between mercs and native units. Mercs would also have a slightly higher experience and discipline and maybe a marginal increase in defense and attack numbers over a new native unit recruit.
    "It is worth while for those who disdain all human things for money, and who suppose that there is no room either for great honor or virtue, except where wealth is found, to listen to his story."
    - Livy 3.26

  17. #17
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Cool, thanks to both for the information. However, I can't give javelins to units because that's beyond my skills. I can change numbers in Notepad and I have the links to instructions for adding units from one faction to another or from one mod to another, but I can't create units. We have to find already-made ones and steal them. Where did you get the javelin knights? Did you make them? Maybe St Polycarpe has some Norse units we could borrow. I remember he made a new roster for DOTS that was going to be used in SS as well.

    The Normans already have Norman Retainers as light cavalry.

    Hopefully in the next patch the map will be extended to the south and the territories of Normandy and the Franks will be better represented, because I don't know how to add off-map trade resources.

    I'll edit post #5 in the thread with the description of every unit I've done until now. The Fyrdmen are Peasant Militia right now, but I can boost them to Militia if needed.
    Alright, was searching for something and fell on that thread, first, wishes good luck for adapting RR/RC but some things will need to be adapted due to the lack of technology (no full plates as example).

    Regarding the Norse units I did for BG submod (didn't remember I've worked for DOTS but it's okay), you could use those but you will need to credit me and Kjertesvein and to contact those guys to confirm the permission, I've modified and exported their models and create the roster: Ataegina and Captain Henry Morgan, after it's all done, you're good to go.

  18. #18

    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    So I'd have to ask all three of them? Blargh. Modding is such a chore.

    Yes, it might have been WOTW, not DOTS. What's BG (other than your former name), and where can I find the units?

  19. #19
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    So I'd have to ask all three of them? Blargh. Modding is such a chore.

    Yes, it might have been WOTW, not DOTS. What's BG (other than your former name), and where can I find the units?
    Imagine on my side with my mod, almost 20 guys I needed to ask.
    Just say St. Polycarpe for the credit, you can find the norse models at my old BG Submod at the bottom of the first post, an attached rar. file. The pack contains all the model but you will have to integrate them by yourself, you can also take the older unit codes in the submod and fix them for the better models of the pack to save some time, most of the units were already categorized by the RR/RC system but with an older version (1.8).

  20. #20
    danova's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: RR/RC for The Last Kingdom (working on it)

    It's OK that you make some units (model+skin), or you remade some of my units model or skin. But if you want to import a lot of units from an another mod, that is to much for me. Sorry guys, but this interrupt my works integrity and style and that would not be tLK! I woudn't give credit ...
    I this case make own your mod, and i give you credit for using units from my mod.
    Sorry if i misunderstood something ...
    .

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