Arnor Master Armorer

[koreanschoolkid]

If this question has already been answered please remove and send me a link.

I noticed that Arnor is unable to advance beyond Partial Plate with native technology and must wait for either the Dwarves to built Full Plate at Moria (which I have never actually seen since either SE or the orcs always hold it) or wait until the Reunited Kingdom and hope that Gondor was kind enough to build one for you at Minas Tirith.
I figure this is a result of Eriador/Arnor being Northmen culture and them having no access no matter what just as Dale or Rohan has no access but I was wondering if there was a workaround for this. Dale and Rohan suffer less from this as they have no units which can upgrade past Partial Plate but Arnor has (with Baron Samedi's compiliation) has at least four.

The only way I could get around this was by starting as the Reunited Kingdom but I dont much like Gondor's units and defending 2 areas so far apart is just too hard for me (VH/H).

[k/t]

Just add the building you want to Arnor as well.

[koreanschoolkid]

I don't really know how to do anything other than make a unit of trolls have 1 defence whenever I feel grumpy. How do I add "Master Armourer" to Eriador/Arnor?

[AWRA]

KS:

TATW is based on Kingdoms and the original MTW2 armor structure:
MTW2 has padded, light mail, heavy mail, partial plate, full plate, and advanced plate - - 6 levels.

advanced plate could only be used by specific units -gothic knights for one I think - without a mod a waste to build the armor factory if not having units to that level - very few.

Kingdoms from looking at the EDB in TATW file only goes to level 5 - full plate.

TATW uses that 5 level structure and renames as follows:
level 1: padded = TATW leather
level 2: light mail = TATW mail
level 3: heavy mail = TATW partial plate
level 4: partial plate = TATW plate
level 5: full plate = TATW mithril

Master Armorer if not disregarding presence of mithril should only be buildable where there's mithril - Moria for example, without looking and I'm playing Arnor now too, can't get to Master Armorer anyway even with a citadel - real hard - I'm trying just to get Moria to fortress now in late game - partly crappy play on my part though. Citadel would permit a heavy armorer and TATW plate upgrade - like I have at Isengard now.

Don't know how or if possible, but might be interesting to allow limited uparmor to mithril if mithril was a trade item and if not mined directly at castle/city it was in a city/castle's trade items. A script based on every so many turns maybe? Not an accomplished modder. For the "adjacent" city to build the master armorer, the mithril trade item would have to be present.

Im finding late game though - does Arnor need mithril armor - especially with aum units - these guys pretty unstoppable. Arnor heavy archers can sit there and take down a bunch and then fight reasonably as swordsmen.

[AWRA]

Need to correct my last - master armorer can be built as moors = dwarves and the city is huge, or castle is a citadel.

[k/t]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444352

For further questions, ask in the Mod Workshop.

[koreanschoolkid]

Thank you very much.
@AWRA I think the Mithril/Dwarf requirement for max level armourer is no longer in 3.1 but I do recall Swan Knights protesting for it back in the day.
I forgot to search SS and will do so for any future questions. Thank you again for the link.

[AWRA]

Thank you very much.
@AWRA I think the Mithril/Dwarf requirement for max level armourer is no longer in 3.1 but I do recall Swan Knights protesting for it back in the day.
I forgot to search SS and will do so for any future questions. Thank you again for the link.

Your question prompted me to go and look at the files, but also prompted a thought for maybe a better treatment of the mithril situation in the questions thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...61921&page=398

IMHO its kind of off now - the Mithril Mine is built by Orcs, but Dwarves can do mithril armor regardless if they own a huge city/citadel anywhere of which if I counted right is 12 in all TATW ME:
Belfalas_Province
Anorien_Province – Minas Tirith
Lebennin_Province
Umbar_Province
Mithlond_Province
Rhun_Province
Gorgoroth_Province - Baradur
Erebor_Province
Dale_Province
Nan-Curunir_Province - Isengard
Misty-Mountains_Province - Moria
Mistrand_Province

Not downloaded with 3.1, Im still playing 2.1 and liking it.


Have to have the chocolate for the best armor .

[k/t]

I'm playing 1.4 with RR/RC, and only the Dwarves can build a mithril forge and only in Moria. Iron Guards, bodyguards and maybe one of their AOR units can get the upgrade.

[marceror]

So I'm trying to get the master armorer added for Arnor. In export_descr_buildings.txt I added the byzantium and turks factions to this building both at the "city" and "castle" levels. I thought I had done everything that was needed, because my building browsers have been showing the appropriate building as being available to build.

But now that I've taken a couple of high level settlements (Carn Dum, and Isengard) and built both the highest level barracks ("army barracks") and the partial plate level smith... the master armorer is not available to construct. It still shows in the building browser... it's just not available to construct!

Might anyone know what else I'm supposed to do? The graphic displaying in the building browser is the graphic that matches what I'd expect Gondor would see, which is fine with me. I think that is perfectly appropriate for Arnor, and such a prestigious building. Here's an example of what I added to export_descr_buildings.txt:

c_plate_armourer castle requires factions { sicily, byzantium, turks, moors, }  and building_present_min_level castle_barracks armoury or building_present_min_level castle_barracks2 armoury2
        {
            convert_to 4
            capability
            {
                armour 5
            }
            material wooden
            construction  6 
            cost  8200 
            settlement_min large_city
            upgrades
            {
                c_gothic_armourer
            }

I appreciate any direction that can be provided. It seems that I'm really close to having this right. Then again, close aint good enough! ;P

[KnightsTemplar]

So I'm trying to get the master armorer added for Arnor. In export_descr_buildings.txt I added the byzantium and turks factions to this building both at the "city" and "castle" levels. I thought I had done everything that was needed, because my building browsers have been showing the appropriate building as being available to build.

But now that I've taken a couple of high level settlements (Carn Dum, and Isengard) and built both the highest level barracks ("army barracks") and the partial plate level smith... the master armorer is not available to construct. It still shows in the building browser... it's just not available to construct!

Might anyone know what else I'm supposed to do? The graphic displaying in the building browser is the graphic that matches what I'd expect Gondor would see, which is fine with me. I think that is perfectly appropriate for Arnor, and such a prestigious building. Here's an example of what I added to export_descr_buildings.txt:

c_plate_armourer castle requires factions { sicily, byzantium, turks, moors, }  and building_present_min_level castle_barracks armoury or building_present_min_level castle_barracks2 armoury2
        {
            convert_to 4
            capability
            {
                armour 5
            }
            material wooden
            construction  6 
            cost  8200 
            settlement_min large_city
            upgrades
            {
                c_gothic_armourer
            }

I appreciate any direction that can be provided. It seems that I'm really close to having this right. Then again, close aint good enough! ;P

That doesn't looks right....
I think you can get that.

[Minas Moth]

c_plate_armourer castle requires factions { sicily, byzantium, turks, moors, }  and building_present_min_level castle_barracks armoury or building_present_min_level castle_barracks2 armoury2
        {
            convert_to 4
            capability
            {
                armour 5
            }
            material wooden
            construction  6 
            cost  8200 
            settlement_min large_city
            upgrades
            {
                c_gothic_armourer
            }

why use both of those? why don't you use just the first one or the last one?... there is no point in using both of them

also; settlements levels are following:
village > town > large_town > city > large_city > huge_city
i think that those are the levels. now what i know 100% is that they are used for both castles and cities... so there is no problem there

[marceror]

That is not a value that I touched, but I do agree that the reference to a large_city when we're dealing with a castle seems odd. That said, all other smith levels also reference cities, and work just fine.

[KnightsTemplar]

Did you reload a save, or started a new game?
That might have something to do with that.
Or maybe wait a turn or two, as sometimes it happens with troops too.

[marceror]

I set all this up before I started my campaign, but now 100 or so turns in, I'm now finally at a point where I'm ready to build a master armorer. The building browser for both Isengard and Carn Dum show the building as being possible to build, but they state that it's "not available to build yet" as if some hidden requirement hasn't been met.

[marceror]

By both of those, I assume you mean "byzantium" and "turks"? I'm playing as Arnor, and tried removing turks at one point, and lost view of the building in the building browser. I guess I could try removing the Byzantium, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything, and all other structures in the file already specify both factions. My approach with any modding I do is to change as little as is necessary. It's just safer that way.

[KnightsTemplar]

Nope
Moth was referring to the requirement for the building, which he crossed out.
This would make the 'Fortress' upgrade the only requirement to build the Armourer.

[Minas Moth]

This would make the 'Fortress' upgrade the only requirement to build the Armourer.

no, i only said he doesn't need to use both...

building_present_min_level castle_barracks armoury or building_present_min_level castle_barracks2 armoury2

the blue one comes before the red one in you edb. which means that the blue one is actually needed to be built before the red one. i don't have the files here, so i might be talking nonsense but there is no point to use both.

depending of what level you want it at i would use either first or second, never together. especially if second has different settlement level (higher) requirement then the first one...

[marceror]

no, i only said he doesn't need to use both...

building_present_min_level castle_barracks armoury or building_present_min_level castle_barracks2 armoury2

the blue one comes before the red one in you edb. which means that the blue one is actually needed to be built before the red one. i don't have the files here, so i might be talking nonsense but there is no point to use both.

depending of what level you want it at i would use either first or second, never together. especially if second has different settlement level (higher) requirement then the first one...

Actually, I don't believe that the blue one needs to be built BEFORE the red one. Either the blue one needs to be built OR the red one. Depending on the faction you are playing you will be able to build one or the other, or as the case may be here... neither.

I managed to figure this out... Arnor can't build any level of armory, because they have no units to train in that building. I guess I could make the building available to build, in order to later get the master armorer. At the moment, I simply changed the build requirements to also allow a barracks to be sufficient to construct the building. That might be too easy access to such a powerful armorer though, so I may play with making the Amoury an available building for Arnor, which will have really no benefit except to enable building of the master armorer... and perhaps a small boost to public order.

[Minas Moth]

Depending on the faction you are playing you will be able to build one or the other, or as the case may be here... neither.

so you use as requirement only the one that your faction can build... why to make a requirement of something you can't build in the first place? if you want to make it owerful it is good that it can't be actually be built all over the map... adds some flavor to it...

...I may play with making the Amoury an available building for Arnor, which will have really no benefit except to enable building of the master armorer...

it takes quite some time to be built and it costs quite some money. if it will provide only public order bonus and allow building of another expensive long-term building i would suggest against it. instead use the lower level of barracks, but maybe higher settlement level, or tie it with some other buildings etc... options are out there; just grab one