Looking for...

[Resurrection]

I am perhaps looking for a submod which would correct some of my main issues with the TATW3.1. After a while I gave the new version a try and I enjoyed it thoroughly but few things bother me a lot. I was playing as Eriador trying to restore Arnor which I succeeded to do but...

...ECONOMY is a joke really. I had no money to support any real army. I couldn't recruit any units worth the money much less paying their upkeep. Development stopped after a while because few economy buildings didn't help much to boost income, expansion neither and since units are worthless I built only few military buildings just for fun of it.

...BODYGUARDS were the way to go guys. For some reason every single bodyguard equals about ten human soldiers in a battle. With just Gandalf + 2 other bodyguards I could capture all rebel settlements around Eriador. Then Gundaband orcs came and also Misty Mountains' ones joined the fun. Turned out the bodyguard is worth 20 orcs. So my battles were like 4 bodyguard units (75 men) against 1800 Gundaband orcs of various class and result was like lost 15, killed all (1900). Each bodyguard unit with about 450 kills. So I was like why not and went on a rampage taking over all of Gundaband and then all of Misty mountains with just two half stacks of bodyguards led by Aragorn and Gandalf. The autocalc is ofc ridiculous so I was taking those garrison script settlements by parking my bodyguards next to it and AI stupidly attacked me, got wiped out and I just walked right in. Lol. Only Moria could not be taken like this as they kept recruiting orcs there but oh well. :-) Needless to say after few battles all my generals (i.e. mainly Aragorn and Gandalf but since I used some others as detached forces to take over Shire and some remote places they too) became legendary demi-gods with 10 stars and number of +hp traits making them almost un-killable. EDIT: And they replenish every turn which makes them 100% more valuable.

...MORALE is ridiculously high. Snaga orcs fighting to the last men and only chance to route a unit is to kill a general. I remember this was the case in TATW 2.0 too. The problem is that orcs' stats are so low they cannot really kill any of my bodyguards but because they are unable to run they get completely wiped out. Literally all my battles ended with enemy losing everybody with me capturing only last few strugglers. It also isn't fun because watching your guys cutting legions of mindless zombies with no self-preservation gets boring after a while.


So what I am looking for is simple. A sub-mod that would:

1) Fix the economy so one can actually develop and maintain an army without hindering development of settlements.

2) Make an army a good thing to have instead of just running around with bodyguards which is currently literally 10 times better than an army (20 times if you face orcs).

3) Lowers morale across the board so that snagas don't fight to the last men when hopelessly surrounded and killed in 20 to 1 ratio...


Thx for suggestions! I used to like RR/RC but I am not sure if the adapted version for 3.1 is a good thing and it does not fix the economy afaik. So any suggestions are very much welcomed!

[lolIsuck]

Medieval knights had a 10 to 1 kill ratio and since this is fantasy where good is supercool and the enemy sucks I think the bodyguard raping the rest is pretty accurate.

[Resurrection]

Medieval knights had a 10 to 1 kill ratio and since this is fantasy where good is supercool and the enemy sucks I think the bodyguard raping the rest is pretty accurate.

I agree but what is the point of having a regular army then (which you cannot support economy-wise anyway)?

[GueulEclator]

where good is supercool and the enemy sucks

Yep but dont forget this : evil men coolness > good men coolness > evil zombie coolness
that's why rhun is super cool

[muller227]

@resurrection

If you play on medium battles the morale thing pretty much goes away. BG's have been an unbalanced portion of Med2 forever. But like in other versions of Med2 as time progresses and better units come on board then you can rely on them less and less. Horse BG's are exceptionally tough and have been in every mod of this game and Vanilla. The one way to deal with it that I have seen is simply to lower their numbers. It really affects how many they kill in a charge, they get overwhelmed by the stagger effect when engaged by infantry, and get much more tired.

The economy is rough no doubt.

[kaa]

I can only agree with economy - to see that "corruption and other" stuff give me like -15 000 of gold per turn... It's just painful.
Once that solved, you can train normal soldiers

[Darth Lord Revan]

I am perhaps looking for a submod which would correct some of my main issues with the TATW3.1. After a while I gave the new version a try and I enjoyed it thoroughly but few things bother me a lot. I was playing as Eriador trying to restore Arnor which I succeeded to do but...

...ECONOMY is a joke really. I had no money to support any real army. I couldn't recruit any units worth the money much less paying their upkeep. Development stopped after a while because few economy buildings didn't help much to boost income, expansion neither and since units are worthless I built only few military buildings just for fun of it.

...BODYGUARDS were the way to go guys. For some reason every single bodyguard equals about ten human soldiers in a battle. With just Gandalf + 2 other bodyguards I could capture all rebel settlements around Eriador. Then Gundaband orcs came and also Misty Mountains' ones joined the fun. Turned out the bodyguard is worth 20 orcs. So my battles were like 4 bodyguard units (75 men) against 1800 Gundaband orcs of various class and result was like lost 15, killed all (1900). Each bodyguard unit with about 450 kills. So I was like why not and went on a rampage taking over all of Gundaband and then all of Misty mountains with just two half stacks of bodyguards led by Aragorn and Gandalf. The autocalc is ofc ridiculous so I was taking those garrison script settlements by parking my bodyguards next to it and AI stupidly attacked me, got wiped out and I just walked right in. Lol. Only Moria could not be taken like this as they kept recruiting orcs there but oh well. :-) Needless to say after few battles all my generals (i.e. mainly Aragorn and Gandalf but since I used some others as detached forces to take over Shire and some remote places they too) became legendary demi-gods with 10 stars and number of +hp traits making them almost un-killable. EDIT: And they replenish every turn which makes them 100% more valuable.

...MORALE is ridiculously high. Snaga orcs fighting to the last men and only chance to route a unit is to kill a general. I remember this was the case in TATW 2.0 too. The problem is that orcs' stats are so low they cannot really kill any of my bodyguards but because they are unable to run they get completely wiped out. Literally all my battles ended with enemy losing everybody with me capturing only last few strugglers. It also isn't fun because watching your guys cutting legions of mindless zombies with no self-preservation gets boring after a while.


So what I am looking for is simple. A sub-mod that would:

1) Fix the economy so one can actually develop and maintain an army without hindering development of settlements.

2) Make an army a good thing to have instead of just running around with bodyguards which is currently literally 10 times better than an army (20 times if you face orcs).

3) Lowers morale across the board so that snagas don't fight to the last men when hopelessly surrounded and killed in 20 to 1 ratio...


Thx for suggestions! I used to like RR/RC but I am not sure if the adapted version for 3.1 is a good thing and it does not fix the economy afaik. So any suggestions are very much welcomed!

I would suggest you try my submod. Then, if you don't like it, you can easily revert to vainilla (you can download the "unninstall" files as well. It's very simple to do.

As I see it, RC fixes two of your problems in a way.

2) The mounted bodyguards have less soldiers (e.g.: Eriador generals have 20 soldiers in their company) but better stats. They are still very powerfull, but they will die...

3) The morale has big differences between militias and professional soldiers. The first ones will rout a lot easier than the last ones.

As for number 1... RC also changes upkeep. Militia based factions like Eriador and orc factions have a better economy because of lower upkeep, and can recruit larger armies.
Professional army factions as Gondor or Elves and Dwarves suffer the contrary.
Give it a try and post your comments in my thread please. I'm looking forward for balance suggestions and comments.

[Resurrection]

I would suggest you try my submod. Then, if you don't like it, you can easily revert to vainilla (you can download the "unninstall" files as well. It's very simple to do.

As I see it, RC fixes two of your problems in a way.

2) The mounted bodyguards have less soldiers (e.g.: Eriador generals have 20 soldiers in their company) but better stats. They are still very powerfull, but they will die...

3) The morale has big differences between militias and professional soldiers. The first ones will rout a lot easier than the last ones.

As for number 1... RC also changes upkeep. Militia based factions like Eriador and orc factions have a better economy because of lower upkeep, and can recruit larger armies.
Professional army factions as Gondor or Elves and Dwarves suffer the contrary.
Give it a try and post your comments in my thread please. I'm looking forward for balance suggestions and comments.

I will, thx for the suggestion!

Why not try an easier setting if you are having difficulties? Only if no one can play a faction should it need changing and many people have played Eriador and completed their campaign goals.

1: Is it possible that your economy went down the drain due to the units defending every one of your cities? When you change from Eriador into Arnor all those units lose their free upkeep and therefore your upkeep increases severly.

2: Generals are very strong early on, this is because early on you are using militia and later on you are using heavy units, generals have to be capable of taking on the latter and therefore will slaughter milita easily. This goes double for orc units due to them being inferior to men, elves and dwarves.

3: Moral igains a boost on higher difficulties but I have never had an issue routing armies of even elite units on medium battle difficulty.

I won my campaign on VH/VH and created Arnor no problem. Only I never used any units in battle but bodyguards and I wiped the floor with Gundaband/Misty Mountains in first 100 years like that. Not much fun really. I didn't quit only because I wanted to see Arnor. My economy was fine as I didn't need to build after first 50 turn because all economy upgrades were built, I didn't need military and growth is slow as hell. So I was just sitting on slowly increasing pile of gold. Had I hired even just one stack I would go bankrupt while owning 25 settlements in Eriador and far beyond and having just one unit in each settlement... I mean it was a fun game but I would enjoy it far more if I could have army and that army would actually be needed for battling enemy and would not be totally inferior, way too expensive and non-auto-replenished.

But the easier difficulty seems like a way to go!

[lolIsuck]

You know giving Mordor a better economy and making it harder for Gondor ain't gonna help the game

[Pinkie Pie]

Why not try an easier setting if you are having difficulties? Only if no one can play a faction should it need changing and many people have played Eriador and completed their campaign goals.

1: Is it possible that your economy went down the drain due to the units defending every one of your cities? When you change from Eriador into Arnor all those units lose their free upkeep and therefore your upkeep increases severly.

2: Generals are very strong early on, this is because early on you are using militia and later on you are using heavy units, generals have to be capable of taking on the latter and therefore will slaughter milita easily. This goes double for orc units due to them being inferior to men, elves and dwarves.

3: Moral igains a boost on higher difficulties but I have never had an issue routing armies of even elite units on medium battle difficulty.

[Pinkie Pie]

Generals will naturally slaughter OoG and OoMM because they lack heavy units, if their stats were to change to make them weak enough to lose against Orc units then generals would be all but useless in later games when fighting the heavy infantry of Isengard and Rhun. One full stack should not bankrupt you unless you either have not been managing your economy well or have got too many units either on your border or in your centre cities. (border cities should have at most half a stack while central cities should only have units with free upkeep.)

[alreadyded]

You can try this out; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=355651. It is very different than vanilla, you might like it.

[lolIsuck]

Everyone's shamellessly advertising their mod ()

[muller227]

Everyone's shamellessly advertising their mod ()

Well Alreadydyed has the right he has done some pretty amazing stuff altering the core Of Med2.

[Tastymuffins1]

I agree the economy needs a serious revamp in 3.1
I'm playing as HE and everything is way too expensive! I've never even heard of paved roads costing 3300! That's crazy they should be like 1600 and several building don't provide the bonuses they used to.. The inns are an example! I can barely afore to build one building per turn and keep up my tiny armies

[muller227]

I agree the economy needs a serious revamp in 3.1
I'm playing as HE and everything is way too expensive! I've never even heard of paved roads costing 3300! That's crazy they should be like 1600 and several building don't provide the bonuses they used to.. The inns are an example! I can barely afore to build one building per turn and keep up my tiny armies

Did you move your Capital?

[Keyser_Soze]

I agree the economy needs a serious revamp in 3.1
I'm playing as HE and everything is way too expensive! I've never even heard of paved roads costing 3300! That's crazy they should be like 1600 and several building don't provide the bonuses they used to.. The inns are an example! I can barely afore to build one building per turn and keep up my tiny armies

Word of advice: don't build trade structures in Imladris. As you're surrounded by enemies, they give little to no bonus.
And yeah, move capital to mithlond and grab all rebel settlements you can. After that, wage war on Isengard's settlements north of the Greyflood- Your economy sucks, but the High elves have the best militia-level troops in the game- Their militia-level sword unit gives 10 damage- that's higher than most soldier-level infantry! And archers are excellent, as you'd expect. Heroic victories are not only possible but probable with the High elves. Just focus on expansion and improving economy (also try and get your hands on the higher-level units such as the eldar swordsmen, which are unmatched in vanilla TATW (only the hidden dismounted black numenoreans are stronger, and they're hidden for a reason)