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  1. #1

    Default New Orleans election...

    Well amazingly Nagin has won reelection as mayor of New Orleans, thus proving you can oversee the destruction of US city and still not be held accountable by voters! Actually Im kidding since really its no ones fault that a hurricane struck New Orleans and it was just a matter of time before a major one got 'lucky' in its hit on NO. However, what Nagin is to blame for is the first response to the hurricane and the failure to evac the city and basically making what was going to be a bad situtation a near nightmare one. A corrupt police force that abandoned their post and fled or simply refused to do their job, chaos and failure to stick to the New Orleans hurricane emergency plan (which is avaiable online for anyone to see and details evacuation plans which werent followed)...Nagin probably has failed in every way you can as a mayor of a city and STILL he was reelected. Now before anyone brings up Bush (I know some of you are probably just dying to) remember this thread is about the failures Nagin and the lack of desire by the people most directly affected by it to hold him accountable, not the federal goverment and Bush of which their was *many* failures and have been documented in other threads. I just cant understand why voters would want him again.

  2. #2
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    While I do not wish to open the can of fat worms regarding responsibility about the handling of the disaster (was HE warned or not? did HE knew about the levies? did HE lied? was he on blissfull holiday in HIS ranch?) again, I agree with many of your points about the Mayor. Was he the guy that said "New Orleans is a chocolate city"?. Looks like the black version of KKK to me.

    "I don't care what people are saying Uptown or wherever they are. This city will be chocolate at the end of the day," he said. "This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be."

    After the statement, he insisted he wasn't being divisive.

    "How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about," he said. "New Orleans was a chocolate city before Katrina. It is going to be a chocolate city after. How is that divisive? It is white and black working together, coming together and making something special." http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/01/17/nagin.city/


    This guy should go for White House Press Secretary...
    Last edited by Garbarsardar; May 20, 2006 at 11:36 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    Looks like the black version of KKK to me.

    Little Racist there. even if you did quote it. That was unnecessary. My friend is black and he probably will get ****** off if he sees that. Anyways, I went to NO about 8 years ago and it wasn't the same NO that got hit by the Hurricane. NO was the most exciting place for Blues music, excellent fish and places to go and see. It was heavan. I really dont know what happened between there, or maybe the mayors got the city washed up. But I know NO deserved better, even if it was bitter hell down there.
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  4. #4
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet of War
    Little Racist there. even if you did quote it. That was unnecessary. My friend is black and he probably will get ****** off if he sees that. Anyways, I went to NO about 8 years ago and it wasn't the same NO that got hit by the Hurricane. NO was the most exciting place for Blues music, excellent fish and places to go and see. It was heavan. I really dont know what happened between there, or maybe the mayors got the city washed up. But I know NO deserved better, even if it was bitter hell down there.
    I found the quote, check my post again... :wink:

    Can you imagine one saying:" N.O. is a "snow" city because that is the way God wants it"? If he was white that would be the end of any political career he hed.

  5. #5

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Checked again. I dont really watch the news often But really, if he said that then maybe he should check the city again and rebuild it better then before. During the hurricane, and after the city fell apart. People were still stealing stuff from empty shops and markets. That for me was the most pathetic sight of my life. And the fact that people were floating on ****** water to survive.
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  6. #6

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    While I do not wish to open the can of fat worms regarding responsibility about the handling of the disaster (was HE warned or not? did HE knew about the levies? did HE lied? was he on blissfull holiday in HIS ranch?) again, I agree with many of your points about the Mayor. Was he the guy that said "New Orleans is a chocolate city"?. Looks like the black version of KKK to me.
    He is the mayor, he is the first line of defense so to speak ultimately it falls on his shoulders to evac the city and if he cant request aid to do so something he didnt do. Also New Orleans as we know has a long history of a corrupt, low morale police department which showed its colors when most either fled or even took advantage of it and looted themselves. We saw even after the storm with the cops beating that guy, all this falls on Nagin's shoulders so that is my point with all these failures why would they want him again as mayor? He knew as much about the storm as anyone else, he even warned on the 26th that people should leave the city but took no steps (ie with the Governor) to force evacuations of especially vulnerable of the city. We saw the Superdome prepared for absolutely nothing in the way of a shelter despite the fact he declared it the major shelter in the city. We all saw after the storm all the comments from Nagin but yet he did very little before the storm. Regardless yes please dont open that can of worms, there is absolutely no denying the screwups, foulups and general incompentance FEMA, the Feds and Bush played in all this but they are only one aspect of the story (the governor is yet another, who seemed more interested in not having the blame put on her then actually doing anything) and they unlike Nagin werent put to a test by an election.

    Little Racist there, my friend is black and he probably will get ****** off if he sees that.
    Nothing racist about his comment, his comment reflects pretty accurately the mentality of KKK members and their 'white only' way of thinking so its a good comparison.

  7. #7
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    I have been to New Orleans many times. I try to avoid Burboun Street now, or did. I remember attending a conference there several years ago. After a nice dinner with friends and a "few" drinks, I headed to my hotel room at a respectable 2am. That is when I discovered the Harrahs casino block down by the riverfront. Did you know you can get free drinks while you play slots? It took me three more hours to break even. And I was scheduled to present at 8am.

    And I made it. One of the hardest days of my life. I felt that afternoon as I staggered back to my hotel room that I had just ran a marathon.

    Why do I have fond memories of New Orleans?

    And, oh yea, congrats to the major...whats his name????

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  8. #8

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar
    I have been to New Orleans many times. I try to avoid Burboun Street now, or did. I remember attending a conference there several years ago. After a nice dinner with friends and a "few" drinks, I headed to my hotel room at a respectable 2am. That is when I discovered the Harrahs casino block down by the riverfront. Did you know you can get free drinks while you play slots? It took me three more hours to break even. And I was scheduled to present at 8am.

    And I made it. One of the hardest days of my life. I felt that afternoon as I staggered back to my hotel room that I had just ran a marathon.

    Why do I have fond memories of New Orleans?

    That is completly off-topic. We arent here to debate that you had a few drinks. Its mostly about NO and its mayor.
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  9. #9
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Nice memories, but please keep it on topic.

    The issue here as danzig puts it, is how came and a person sharing a considerable part of the responsibility for the managment of the outcome of Katrina is re-awarded or simply rewarded by the citizens of N.O.

  10. #10

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    My biggest problem with Nagin is that his comments are almost as badly sourced as mine. I mean, sure he didn't rail against 'Nazi Iranians' but he was the guy who, when asked about the N.O. death toll, revelled in slight exaggeration, suggesting that likely at least 10 000 people had died.

    In any case, the information I've seen on Nagin, and certainly my reaction to him during the disaster was that he was a blowhard completely out of his depth.[no, he can't have my job!!!!] Everything, it seemed, was someone else's fault.

    From the WSJ's opinion page, comes this criticism. [link here ]
    The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

    The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

    In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

    A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.

    The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

    Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

    The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

    The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

    Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

    The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

    In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

    State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

    I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

    The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.


    In Patronicum sub Siblesz

  11. #11

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    The qoutes blames the president and the local governments. Bush it to busy fighting the Iraq war to try to spread his other eye to Orleans? The local goverments were just as helpless as the mayor.
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  12. #12

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet of War
    The qoutes blames the president and the local governments. Bush it to busy fighting the Iraq war to try to spread his other eye to Orleans? The local goverments were just as helpless as the mayor.
    He wasnt helpless *before* the storm, yes after the storm it was obvious they needed quick federal which was screwed up by the Feds but it doesnt change the fact that alot of that existed because he failed to do his job BEFORE the storm.

    At the time, it may have been a conservative estimate. Several hundreds of thousands were trapped by the rising waters at thousands of locals around the city. And initially, over 11,600 were reported missing in the weeks after the storm hit.
    True but it was still an estimate pulled out of thin air with not nothing to back it up, remember alot of horror stories to come out of NO turned out to be pure nonsense such as the cannibalism, raping of babies, mass gang rapes etc....if thought that Iranian story was bad with bs news report it couldnt touch New Orleans

  13. #13
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    My biggest problem with Nagin is that his comments are almost as badly sourced as mine. I mean, sure he didn't rail against 'Nazi Iranians' but he was the guy who, when asked about the N.O. death toll, revelled in slight exaggeration, suggesting that likely at least 10 000 people had died.
    At the time, it may have been a conservative estimate. Several hundreds of thousands were trapped by the rising waters at thousands of locals around the city. And initially, over 11,600 were reported missing in the weeks after the storm hit.

    Todays revised estimate of Katrina's death toll

    Louisiana - 1,577
    Mississippi - 170

    Missing (reported by Louisiana Health and Hospitals)
    274
    http://www.dhh.louisiana.gov/offices/?ID=192

    Grand total dead and missing
    2021



    Would like to add a good word for the Coast Guard
    http://www.boston.com/news/local/con...guard_history/

    ​​
    Pillaging and Plundering since 2006

    The House of Baltar

    Neither is this the dawn from the east, nor is a dragon flying above, nor are the gables of this hall aflame. Nay, mortal enemies approach in ready armour. Ravens are calling, wolves are howling, spear clashes and shield answers



  14. #14

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Ouch, thats alot of casualties. Not to mention the a dam near NO was made out of wood The city itself was behind in technology and the civil life that most cities in America have today. I think the Mayor was a failure to act, if he would of acted at least maybe a day sooner, at least about 700 would of or could of survived
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes
    From the WSJ's opinion page, comes this criticism. [link here ]
    The author is Bob Williams of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank. He is also a politician.

    I rest my case...
    You can hide your light behind the hill,
    Offer up your freedom and your will,
    You can build your house on the shifting sand,
    As for me I'll fight where I stand.

    Lyrics from "Fight Where I Stand", Needfire (Celtic Rock Band)

  16. #16

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Dang, hate when threads turn into this.... cant make sense out of it
    I was hoping for some civil chat lol. Well Nagin is one heck of a dude if he thinks hes going to be able to keep his job even if the people voted for him.
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  17. #17

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    The author is Bob Williams of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank. He is also a politician.

    I rest my case...
    Yes of course because all conservatives are evil white people so everything they say should be dismissed...case rested indeed.

    Dang, hate when threads turn into this.... cant make sense out of it
    I was hoping for some civil chat lol. Well Nagin is one heck of a dude if he thinks hes going to be able to keep his job even if the people voted for him.
    So was I but sadly that is not meant to be instead we get the typical nonsense of political rantings...just goes to show for some people on these forums they cant see any issue without seeing them thru political bias glasses. I was more interested in why people vote the way they do even when their leaders fail but the thread took another direction.

  18. #18
    Evariste's Avatar We are one, we are many
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    But doesn't their leader reflect the people on the whole?

  19. #19

    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    As pretty much a democratic, I think the Mayor should reflect on the people, not the other way around. Of course, sometimes the peoples opinon isnt always accepted by the goverment.
    “I have suffered much from waves and wars, and now let this trial join the rest.”
    -Homer

  20. #20
    Kino's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New Orleans election...

    Deleted by user.
    Last edited by Kino; January 17, 2007 at 01:03 AM.
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