Generals surviving siege . Possible solution FOUND .

[DaredevilGR]

First of all , let me tell you that I do not know almost anything of modding M2TW and whatever I tried was inside the game , but I believe since it worked ingame , why not with a script . {Anyone can try to write a script like this just give me a credit for the idea IF it worked }

So we all know how frustrating is to have a good general in a settlement while it is under siege and losing him . Even worse , at the first turns , when you see a settlement with 1-3 units and attack it and see Witch-King inside , you feel somehow bad killing him from too early . Epicness is lost . However using only one command (move_character) , I found (perhaps) a way to bypass this problem .

Lets say Linhir is under siege from Harad . I have Curven inside and I want him live . When Harad sets the city under siege I used the move_character Curven x,y . Now the character himself was moved out of the city but he was also inside the city . Kinda crazy I know . The only thing you see on the campaign map is the green circle at his legs and his panel with his units ... You can't move him (cause Linhir is still under siege and he is also inside the city) . However you can make him attack the Haradrim army as a bail out solution . Now the funny part is when you press WITHDRAW , the character actually , fully leaves the settlement with the army you selected to bail out and Harad captures it with no battle (if you bailed out with the whole of your army) . You still see the circle alone in the character though , BUT if you put him in another settlement everything comes to normal !!!!

So , my suggestion is , IF it is possible to make a script this way .

i)Trigger : The siege
ii)Effect : i) Message to user if he wants to try to bail out (informing him to press withdraw at battle screen which can open automatically --EXAMPLE settlement viewer from Baron's mod--) and if possible give a success rate based on general's skill .
ii) Withdraw and give details of the "invisible" character's location so the user can try to locate the character and put him in a city .


Whats your opinion ? Is it possible ?

[DaredevilGR]

Photos coming soon

[DaredevilGR]

Screenshots proving the above uploaded . Enjoy and comment

[Space Voyager]

Frankly, it is not that frustrating to lose a good general if I f..... up and let him be caught. Using a feature like the one you describe is plain and simple cheating.

[Withwnar]

Using a feature like the one you describe is plain and simple cheating.

It's a possible solution to something that is being discussed in the TATW forum: how to make it so that defenders don't necessarily die. (Some escape.)

This is interesting DaredevilGR. I knew about the invisible general thing but not that he is in two places at once, or that putting him back in a settlement fixes the invisibility (presumably fixed only if the first 'clone' is now dead?).

Personally I wouldn't want it - certain death is part of the game IMO - but many would. Script could also be used to move the invisible general into a settlement, bypassing the need for player involvement. But it would be a lengthy script handling every possible settlement on the map and tracking who owns it. Then there's the risk that it might already be full.

So far as the original script goes that too would be lengthy, considering the number of possible names for generals. And the risk - when there are duplicate names - that the wrong one is moved. Limiting it to a few key characters would simplify things a lot.

[DaredevilGR]

Of course . Key characters are the ones we want to protect .

[Abyrvalg]

Frankly, it is not that frustrating to lose a good general if I f..... up and let him be caught.

This.

[Vifarc]

I'm against, but:

. I'm ok for troops dying for their beloved/scared of, general try to escape.
The general must have at least 6 in Respect/Fear and will permanently loose HitPoints in the escape: 11 minus Respect/Fear.

. A general with less than 5 Loyalty could also sell his remaining honor, trying to find a deal to survive the battle.
He then gain a Coward trait, or even can become a traitor and join the enemy side!

[DaredevilGR]

Actually its not . I did not talk about 100% success rate . You could risk losing him without even playing the battle . Its unrealistic to either live or die . Many could retreat away . General's skill level , enemy's numbers could be a factor .

[TheRomanRuler]

I found it cowards way to let general live after failed siege defense. Or not to fight at all! You leave those defenceless citicens without defences! Same as sending them to Mordor, and say "Good luck for killing Sauron!"

[Mikail Mengsk]

Win or die. If the enemy besiege a settlement where i have put a valuable general with too few units to defend it, it's my fault. The loss of the general will teach me not to repeat that error again.

[Vespasian92]

If the enemy besiege a settlement where i have put a valuable general with too few units to defend it, it's my fault. The loss of the general will teach me not to repeat that error again.

This.

[Che]

It could prove useful in some cases. For instance when East Osgiliath gets besieged and I have too few units there, it just doesn't make sense that I can't fall back to the west part of the city. Otherwise I wouldn't use it.

[Lionheart_19]

If you were a general trying to defend the walls on the north side of the city and lost them and realized the battle was lost, why wouldn't you order your army to retreat and leave the battlefield through the southern gate while enemy troops are still climbing the walls?

If you want to stay and fight to the death, fine. Keep fighting to the last man. But there should be a retreat option. Like that white flag icon used to retreat units on open ground battles being actually useable by a siege defending army

[Mikail Mengsk]

If you were a general trying to defend the walls on the north side of the city and lost them and realized the battle was lost, why wouldn't you order your army to retreat and leave the battlefield through the southern gate while enemy troops are still climbing the walls?

If you want to stay and fight to the death, fine. Keep fighting to the last man. But there should be a retreat option. Like that white flag icon used to retreat units on open ground battles being actually useable by a siege defending army

This is reasonable, but it will be a simple exploit to easily "survive" a clear strategic error. The AI isn't very smart, so i think avoiding even its rare moments of cunningness is overkill

[PGeo36]

It could prove useful in some cases. For instance when East Osgiliath gets besieged and I have too few units there, it just doesn't make sense that I can't fall back to the west part of the city. Otherwise I wouldn't use it.

This would be the only situation I could see it being allowed.

[Lazy]

I take a bet... the script would occur after you lost the battle... in this very moment your character is dead already so you could not move it!

The only other logicall possibility would be to bind a "move_character" option to some key that moves the army ( while the city is under siege ) to the west (or east) part of the town... that´s easily possible I think... Only problem is: how to move units that do not have a Captain ( => have no name ) ?
In Osgiliath it would be realistic to reatreat over ( or on ) the bridge... and not simply die!
Same for the Black Gate or Minas Morgul ( the eastern "Black Gate"... pls do not hit me for calling it this way ) as these settlements have a free backdoor...

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

Spartan Law of War !! , It would only be acceptable for Enemy generals given the fact that they don't care at all for the orcs. But i can't Imagine Aragorn running away from a siege and leave the people to die =[

[Pinkie Pie]

If you leave a good general in a border city with only a few units to defend him then you deserve to see him die.
If you leave a general in a city behjind the border and are unfortunate enough to have it come under siege with no hope of rescue then feel free to rp him dying to buy the locals a chance of escaping.

[Incredible Bulk]

How will they escape? In real life the enemy once in will have men by the doors is the General going to jump off the wall? Look it sucks to lose one but realistically it happens, no choice he will die unless w surrenders and and is taken captive