Ridicilious Siege AI's and perhaps escape siege script ?

[whitewolfmxc]

ok this is annoying the hell out of me , every time during the siege battles AI mindlessly "death march" (half of a unit is fighting while the other half mindlessly runs towards my town center im talking about the same unit thats doing the above two things and not multiple units etc) the whole army , so especially if i dont have enough "front" to stop these run aways towards my town center , i lose the battle , its annoying and unrealistic to say the best

Also perhaps there should be a script where not every unit that lost the siege (defender) is magically gone , if the game ended before everyone was killed , there should be a script (or actually when during turns its being sieged it should have a script to try to escape / breakthrough that works) to allow the general and remaining units to escape the settlement (but with some losses too obviously) , it adds a lot more dynamic to the game (also not forcing human players having to fear good generals just to hold a town . because it needs a governor too while its easy target for AI)

[Denizou]

I totally agree, this should be applied on Stainless Steel also.

[Bobz]

More annoying is the AI's decision as soon as the gates are breached to rush absolutely everyone not engaged at full run, with no semblance of order, straight through the gatehouse - completely towers or ladders at the walls, or saving fresh forces for later. I would lose many more siege battles if they just decided to use their troops sensibly - they could overwhelm the walls and strike my troops struggling to hold them at the gates.

[iffi]

More annoying is the AI's decision as soon as the gates are breached to rush absolutely everyone not engaged at full run, with no semblance of order, straight through the gatehouse - completely towers or ladders at the walls, or saving fresh forces for later. I would lose many more siege battles if they just decided to use their troops sensibly - they could overwhelm the walls and strike my troops struggling to hold them at the gates.

Is this a vanilla game thing? I don't think so?

It gets really strange when ladders get set up before the gate is breached. All the units start going to the ladders, the ram even starts to retreat!

[Bobz]

Is this a vanilla game thing? I don't think so?

It gets really strange when ladders get set up before the gate is breached. All the units start going to the ladders, the ram even starts to retreat!

I'm not sure, it's been a very long time since I've defended a settlement in Vanilla. Even played a Byzantine campaign in the summer and the closest I got was a sally out.

Anyway I haven't seen the AI leave the ram in my games. When the ladders/towers reach my walls, the enemy sent the units holding them up, but the second the gate was breached their reinforcements and the rest of the army abandoned the units on top, and ran straight towards the gate.

[BrodY]

More annoying is the AI's decision as soon as the gates are breached to rush absolutely everyone not engaged at full run, with no semblance of order, straight through the gatehouse - completely towers or ladders at the walls, or saving fresh forces for later. I would lose many more siege battles if they just decided to use their troops sensibly - they could overwhelm the walls and strike my troops struggling to hold them at the gates.

"These are merely mindless Orcs! Not Uruk-Hai, whose shields are broad... and their armours thick."

[Ultra123]

agree, its terribly annoying to see a golbliun halberd unit simplay walk through elronds units in ost in to the town centre clearing the way for about 1000 more goblins behind them,,,,,

[Lionheart_19]

i agree with both. i also find it very unrealistic that every unit dies in siege defense. i mean if i was defending the city and the battle is lost and the way to the gates is clear i'd order my army to run trough the gates and abandon the city. all generals defending a city in reality medieval times, if they could, they would run when the battle was lost

[iffi]

ok this is annoying the hell out of me , every time during the siege battles AI mindlessly "death march" (half of a unit is fighting while the other half mindlessly runs towards my town center im talking about the same unit thats doing the above two things and not multiple units etc) the whole army , so especially if i dont have enough "front" to stop these run aways towards my town center , i lose the battle , its annoying and unrealistic to say the best

This happens to me not that often, and only when I have too few defenders. I would lose the battle anyway.

I think you answered your rant yourself, if you gots not enough 'front' you die. Using guard mode I think helps to fight against the 'push' at the gate, and units in 'shield wall' seem to push back nicely.

Anyway, I don't think it is too unrealistic either. They came to pillage and plunder, not to fight the first enemy till one of them is completely wiped out.

[whitewolfmxc]

This happens to me not that often, and only when I have too few defenders. I would lose the battle anyway.

I think you answered your rant yourself, if you gots not enough 'front' you die. Using guard mode I think helps to fight against the 'push' at the gate, and units in 'shield wall' seem to push back nicely.

Anyway, I don't think it is too unrealistic either. They came to pillage and plunder, not to fight the first enemy till one of them is completely wiped out.

lol so i guess you dont play much of the good factions then ? you Always get outnumbered , so by how much , the thing is even if you deploy properly there will still be a few "guys" of the enemy where that same unit is half engaged the other half (or at least a dozen men) will Run towards the town square ..... i clearly dont see how this is realistic , hey im going to run towards an empty space in the city while 99% of my other guys are fighting thier way through , oh by the way if i run to the center i win the game becuase the good guys dont have (or cant since everyones engaged) guys to stop that a dozen man lol

good game , thanks for coming



also the few post above this one : The AI rant was only about the running man towards town center

, the other escape thing was a suggestion by a SCRIPT . its not suppose to be a mechanic in game , im aware the problem has been there since Shogun 1 (yes i played it)

and where would they run ? Does every siege battle end with everyone killed in there ? Real life wise there are cases armies or at least a small portion of it can get away , battles are chaotic and full of opportunities lol

[Withwnar]

The AI rant was only about the running man towards town center, the other escape thing was a suggestion by a SCRIPT

Possible, to some extent, but very tricky. e.g. The units and generals will die - no getting around that - but script could respawn some survivors after the battle.

But which ones? You can only spawn full units, not units with only a few men in them, and the script would need to track what kinds of units there were to begin with; difficult.

Same with generals. If (a big if) the script could track who was in there then it could respawn them. But at what age? He would lose all of his traits and ancillaries and he would no longer be in the family tree. If he's faction leader or heir then he will no longer be. So Aragorn will now just be a general, not even in the tree.

Unless there is some way for battle script to remove units and generals from the battle before it ends. I don't know much about battle script but I don't think that it's possible.

[paradamed]

Guys thats the way the engine is and it will always be. Siege battles are fought to the death by the defender always. Thats part of the total war engine. You will have to live with that.

[Incredible Bulk]

Guys thats the way the engine is and it will always be. Siege battles are fought to the death by the defender always. Thats part of the total war engine. You will have to live with that.

makes sense where will they run too?

[Pinkie Pie]

It is no even something that is unique to Kingdoms. Losing your army in a siege happens in every single Total War game (I have not tried Medieval 1 or Shogun 1 so someone will have to clarify if it is the same in these).

[Pinkie Pie]

You know you could stop this by keeping some units in the town centre
In border cities I keep cavalry in the town centre due to their usefullness in pushing the enemy infantry back if they are overwhelming my defending forces or to circle around the city and strike into their backs causing a mass route that kills every one of them as they psss through the gate.

[whitewolfmxc]

You know you could stop this by keeping some units in the town centre
In border cities I keep cavalry in the town centre due to their usefullness in pushing the enemy infantry back if they are overwhelming my defending forces or to circle around the city and strike into their backs causing a mass route that kills every one of them as they psss through the gate.

I know but i want to fight real wall to wall (or gate) siege battles where it is more realistic (i play my game as realistic as possible) , also its a huge disadvantage to AI if i camp my whole army and just fight the streets and town center , i prefer to do it realistically if i cant hold the wall and gates then i fall back to fight in the center and streets , the difference is in this case i have an OPTION , and not forced to do so because the AI is behaving stupid lol

[Pinkie Pie]

There is a mod in Baron Samedi's Compilation that respawns generals that have died with all of their traits so it is possible.
I have never had any of my generals die through it but I have killed the Witch-King only to see him return with the same traits.

[Bungo Baggins]

There is a mod in Baron Samedi's Compilation that respawns generals that have died with all of their traits so it is possible.
I have never had any of my generals die through it but I have killed the Witch-King only to see him return with the same traits.

It respawns them with their starting traits I'm afraid.
They just have a decent number of those.

Besides it only works with starting generals.

[Pinkie Pie]

It respawns them with their starting traits I'm afraid.
They just have a decent number of those.

Besides it only works with starting generals.

Really? I could have sworn he had the same ones he died with, he did seem to move against me (Rohan) pretty quickly so he probably did not have time to get more traits.

[Bungo Baggins]

Really? I could have sworn he had the same ones he died with, he did seem to move against me (Rohan) pretty quickly so he probably did not have time to get more traits.

I'm quite certain about this.
Extract from campaign script:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
and I_CompareCounter go_nazgul = 1
and I_CompareCounter go_nine = 1
and I_SettlementOwner Gorgoroth = england
and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists ring_nazgula
spawn_army
faction england
character Nazgula, named character, age 41, x 290, y 138, portrait nazgul1, battle_model witchking, hero_ability Terror_of_the_Witch_King
traits Witchking 1 , hero_ability12 1 , RingOne 1 , LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 3 , BattleScarred 2 , BattleDread 1 , CaptorDread 1 , GoodAttacker 1 , NightBattleCapable 1
unit Black Numenorians exp 3 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
end
set_counter nazgul 1
end_monitor

He should have those visible traits:

Biography
Special Ability
Ring One
Proven Commander
Scarred
Winning First
Disrespects Prisoners
Promising Attacker
Night Fighter

That should coincide with your experience...