Real Combat for TATW 3 submod by Darth Lord Revan 1.3 RELEASED!!

[Darth Lord Revan]

This is a little submod I made in which I got the RC stats from the MOS 6.2 version (for TATW 2.1) and adapted it to the TATW 3 version. For the new units I used the same system created by Point Blank, especifically Moneybags 14 RC spreadsheet. So all credit goes to them for their great work and, of course, to King Kong and the TATW team for making this amazing mod for us to enjoy.


What this mod does:
As you know there are not many new units in the 3.x version compared to 2.x so all I did was to adapt the last RR/RC stats (for all units, including the different accuracy for archers) from RR/RC in 2.1 (which is in MOS submod) into the new EDU and then I used Moneybags 14 RC spreadsheet to tweak the new units (very poorly I guess, but I did my best )

As I'm a new modder you should not expect a perfect work in this first realease. Constructive criticism is more than welcome and, actually, expected by me in order to make this better, especially regarding the new units. So don't be shy and post your ideas, critics and suggestions in this thread.

Gameplay info:
I've tried a couple of short campaigns and two long ones with High Elves and Silvan Elves. It looks pretty balanced in terms of the AI expansion... No factions has been crashed by turn 120 (only OOtMM by me)
As for the Elves, don't think they are easier to play by looking at their cool stats, you will not be able to afford many units because they are really expensive to recruit and to maintain. If you expand too fast, you will not be able to defend all settlements...
Militia based factions and orc factions can afford larger armies (though weaker in stats)


Installation:
1) Download "RC TATW 3 - 1.3" file attached to this thread

2) Extract it to your desktop

3) Drag the "data" folder into your "Third_Age_3" folder

4) If prompted to overwrite clic yes to all

5) Play! (all changes are save-game compatible)


Uninstall
1) Download "TATW 3 Vanilla Back Up" file attached to this thread

2) Extract it to your desktop

3) Drag the "data" folder into your "Third_Age_3" folder

4) If prompted to overwrite clic yes to all

5) You are back to vainilla TATW 3


Changelog:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VERSION 1.1
- Fixed armour upgrades to fit the vainilla upgrades (was causing CTD )
- Added mount_effect to some spearmen units and deleted their spear_bonus attribute because they perform better against other infantry without it
- Added a line in the mass of spearmen to tighten their formation
All changes suggested by muller227 so thx and + rep for you

VERSION 1.2
- Change the smiths upgrade levels for several units to better fit the vainilla system. E.g. now Gondor Infantry, Spearmen, Archers and Cavalry have to levels of armour upgrades (with visual upgrades from vainilla)
- Little tweak on Rhovanion Riders and Eregion Smiths units stats
Thx fightermedic and trance for your suggestions

VERSION 1.3
- Changed the smiths upgrade levels for several units to make it more realistic. Now, many units will not be able to upgrade their armor as they are past their factions smith upgrade capabilitys.
- Reduced the Gondor Spearmen, Infantry, Archers and Cavalry armor in 1 point because they have two upgrades (that will actually add 4 points to their armor) so we can keep the nice skins they made for the armor upgrades.
- Gondor Cavalry recruitment's cost and upkeep is higher now.
- Erased some vanilla "mount_effect" for archers (which gives them +3 against elephant)
- Changed the move_speed_mod for some halberdiers and pike units in order to make them playable... they are a bit faster now, so I hope they can now join a battle

Thx for the suggestions to Nemesis_GR, Abyrvalg and LongPike

THIS SUBMOD IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH VANILLA TATW 3.1 and 3.2


Files modified:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

export_descr_unit (all units with RC stats)
descr_projectile (all different missiles for each faction and class from RC)
descr_mount (mounts mass as in RC - changed the spider's mass from 15 to 2, because I felt them to be way too strong)

Credits:
King Kong and the TATW team for TATW 3
Point Blank for his fantastic Real Recruitment / Real Combat system
The MOS team for adapting RR/RC to TATW 2.1
Moneybags 14 for his TATW RC spreadsheet

[angus young]

Hi,
Is your mod compatible with the baron samedi's submod ?

[fightermedic]

did i mention this is the best thread on the internet for at least a week? awesom stuff man, just awesome!

some fast feedback from a first glance:

- hobbitry-in-arms have an attack value of 1 - i think this schould be increased to 2 - even snaga have 2! after all they are wielding 2 handed weapons!
- talking of them - snaga stalkers are to good, they have better stats than some milita units while having 100 more men in the unit - ain't they supposed to be the worst unit one can field (apart from numbers), i think a decrease in defense to 7 or 8 is in order
- when comparing rhovanion riders and yeomen to dale cavalry something seems wrong - both have higher attack values, which is wrong at least for yeomen, and although dale cavalry has superior equipment they have the same defense value as the rhovanion riders - full chainmail surely justifies a higher armour value for dale cavalry!
- rhovanion hunters need their attack value increased to 2 and their missile value decreased - those are melee units mostly but they have horrid melee stats but the same missile stats and weaker melee stats as real skirmishers (eg rivermen)
- the weakest bow unit for dale, the woodsmen, have a higher attack value than many melee units, although they only wield a long knife, that sounds just wrong
- the same is true for woodland hunters of eriador
- breeland militia need a higher attack value than 1, even most milita archers have 2!

just suggestions, good job

would it by any means be possible for you to upload the filled out spreadsheet?

[Hero of the West]

it is not compatible, pretty sure..

and did you got PB's permission?

[trance]

He did.

Anyway, very nice! Kudos to you Revan . (I'd rep you again but alas it is not possible)

[muller227]

The Baron's Mod is not supported as this does not have AUM

[Abyrvalg]

Thank God (and you)!
I was about to do it myself, for myself, but was scared by sheer amount of work.
RC is like drug, can't play TATW or SS without it.
Dude, you're great. May dark side of the Force be with you

[Nemesis_GR]

Havent played 3.x yet.I have been waiting for this!Tnx man!+rep

[scienceguy99]

Does this add new animations?

[mastermindkar]

No, it only changes the unit stats and availability. It's possible that some units use different animation sets, but no new animations are introduced.

[Darth Lord Revan]

-angus young
Is your mod compatible with the baron samedi's submod ?

No, it's not. This submod is only for TATW 3 for the moment... I could try doing it but I haven't really seen Baron Samedi's files yet to see how much more work it will need.

-fightermedic
did i mention this is the best thread on the internet for at leas a week? awesom stuff man, just awesome!

Thx, I take it as a compliment

- hobbitry-in-arms have an attack value of 1 - i think this schould be increased to 2 - even snaga have 2! after all they are wielding 2 handed weapons!
- talking of them - snaga stalkers are to good, they have better stats than some milita units while having 100 more men in the unit - ain't they supposed to be the worst unit one can field (apart from numbers), i think a decrease in defense to 7 or 8 is in order
- when comparing rhovanion riders and yeomen to dale cavalry something seems wrong - both have higher attack values, which is wrong at least for yeomen, and although dale cavalry has superior equipment they have the same defense value as the rhovanion riders - full chainmail surely justifies a higher armour value for dale cavalry!
- rhovanion hunters need their attack value increased to 2 and their missile value decreased - those are melee units mostly but they have horrid melee stats but the same missile stats and weaker melee stats as real skirmishers (eg rivermen)
- the weakest bow unit for dale, the woodsmen, have a higher attack value than many melee units, although they only wield a long knife, that sounds just wrong
- the same is true for woodland hunters of eriador
- breeland militia need a higher attack value than 1, even most milita archers have 2!

just suggestions, good job

All your suggestions are about units that I copy from former RR/RC versions, which I haven't changed. I was thinking about tweaking some of them (especifically snaga stalkers, Eriador Militia, some Dale early units...) but then I decided that I would leave them as they were in the former RR/RC versions and open up the debate here wether they should or should not be tweaked. So thank you for your suggestions and I'll consider them if I decide to change stats

would it by any means be possible for you to upload the filled out spreadsheet?

I didn't save the spreadsheet with all the units I made there. Once I'm confortable with a unit I go for another one and I use the same line. What I save, in a word file, are the options I made for that unit. e.g.: "Rhudaur Axemen: Local – superior – Impetuous – Javelin – Axe – Light Mail - Small Round – Human" for the different categories of the spreadsheet. Point Blank uploaded a spreadsheet made by Moneybags14 in my former thread. Take a look at it here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=511425&page=2
Notice that every decision you make in the categories will greately affect the stats of the unit, so you might not have the same results as those already in RC.

Hero of the West
and did you got PB's permission?

Yes, I did. You can check it out in my profile, he left a response there: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=80670

trance
He did.
Anyway, very nice! Kudos to you Revan . (I'd rep you again but alas it is not possible)

Thank you. (I actually had to search "kudos" to see if it was a good thing, )

muller227

Thank you for your support and your suggestions in the PM. I'll answer it there.

Abyrvalg
Thank God (and you)!
I was about to do it myself, for myself, but was scared by sheer amount of work.
RC is like drug, can't play TATW or SS without it.
Dude, you're great. May dark side of the Force be with you

It requieres a bit of work (not as much as other mods need, no doubt) but I did it primerely for myself, because I love playing with RC stats. And then I felt that I should share it with the community. I was lucky Point Blank allowed me to realease.


Nemesis_GR
Havent played 3.x yet.I have been waiting for this!Tnx man!+rep

You are welcome! Please post your feed back about stats balancing or strategic balance, cost balance, etc.

scienceguy99
Does this add new animations?

No, it uses the vainilla ones.

[trance]

Quick report: Fix Gondor Infantry, Archers and Spearmen's upgrade levels - they have an additonal one. Right now it can be fixed yourselves by going into the export_desc_unit file and change their entries by adding a 6* to the UG level line . This will give you the possiblity of gaining the film version of these warriors. Not sure if same rule may apply to the units of other races :o.

Revan, I suggest you add this to these units. Quick and easy to fix, as I suppose some will not have the sense to fix it themselves .

[Darth Lord Revan]

Quick report: Fix Gondor Infantry, Archers and Spearmen's upgrade levels - they have an additonal one. Right now it can be fixed yourselves by going into the export_desc_unit file and change their entries by adding a 6* to the UG level line . This will give you the possiblity of gaining the film version of these warriors. Not sure if same rule may apply to the units of other races :o.

Revan, I suggest you add this to these units. Quick and easy to fix, as I suppose some will not have the sense to fix it themselves .

Thanks for the suggestion, but please don't change it like that. Vainilla smiths upgrade only go to 4 for all factions and 5 for Dwarves and Gondor. If you put a 6 in the upgrade options for the unit it will CTD when you open the description card while playing, and it will not be good for upgrading anyway... So wait a couple of minutes and I'll be uploading the new files with 3, 4, 5 as upgrades options for Gondor Infantry, Spearmen, Archers and Cavalry, as well as other tweaks in the upgrades for other factions to fit better in the vainilla system.

[Darth Lord Revan]

Uploaded 1.2 with some changes suggested in this thread so thx to fightermedic, trance and muller227. I added a changelog for you to see what changed, though I strongly suggest everybody to redownload it as they were some errors with armour upgrades that might cause CTD when opening unit card descriptions. Plus other stuff you can now enjoy (check changelog) that I forgot to put

Please keep posting your suggestions and impressions so we can make it better for all to enjoy it

[fightermedic]

the riders are ok like this (don't forget to adjust the price )

[trance]

Ah! Right-o, did miss the movie-esque Gondorian Infantry so changed it at my own whim without such considerations. Guess I'll have to wait for your own fix then !

[jallp7]

Sorry for the noob question, but is this sub-mod compatible with version 3.1?

[muller227]

Sorry for the noob question, but is this sub-mod compatible with version 3.1?

Yes, and welcome to the forum.

[Knel]

This submod sounds nice! I just haven´t downloaded it because I want to keep BS submodcompilation.

Does this submod also change the stamina values of the units? It seems a bit weird that the heavy armored uruk-hai infantry has "very good stamina" and the uruk raiders have just "good stamina" altough the description text of the raiders says somtheing like "they can march longer because they wear less armor than other uruks." There are more units in there of this sort.

[LongPike]

Hi

Thanks for the mod, was looking for something like this for a long time. Any plans to include the AUM units?

One part that might be worth is checking the upgrades. I noticed that the Silvan Heavies can be upgraded with partial plate, even though the armour values of 11 and the look indicate that they are already wearing full plate or at least plate and mail.