Knight's Templar

[Deadeye313]

hi, guys. I'm new to this forum. I loved Rome: Total war but yes, it got boring after the 3rd or 4th time taking over the world.

After watching Kingdom of Heaven, The Da Vinci Code and some History channel documentaries on them. The Knight's templar seem to be a pretty influencial group during the middle ages.

I was wondering: What will their role be in medievil 2? will they be the Pope's troops (since they worked for him after the crusades)? will they just be their own army? can you bribe them by making an extremely large "Donation"(they lived on donations) and have them attacking someone?

And maybe, though I really really doubt it, can we uncover some deep dark secret the Templar have been hiding?

[Farnan]

Ignore Hollywood and the Da Vinci Code when you're looking for historically accurate facts.

Saying that, the Knights Templar, though technically loyal to the Pope first, were actually under command of their own commander. They were also known, from what I have read, to have been more tolerant towards the Muslim population in the ME than the average crusader. Also, there is no secret of the Templar, except where they put their gold...

[Deadeye313]

I know. They did have a grand master and were pretty much their own men but the Pope did give them a lot of power later. And evidently they were a major force in Europe if the King of France felt threatened by them enough to throw the inquisition on them.

They are there and they are an influence in the real middle ages, shouldn't they be here? They could be the Pope's knight unit or something but they shouldn't be ignored.

[MoROmeTe]

They will probably be a Guild one can obtain after certain events, such as the Crusades conquering Jerusalem and/or other prerequsites. They shall be pretty much recruitable to those factions that can get that guild. It may be unique so that only one faction can obtain their units...

[Shaun]

They will probably be a Guild one can obtain after certain events, such as the Crusades conquering Jerusalem and/or other prerequsites. They shall be pretty much recruitable to those factions that can get that guild. It may be unique so that only one faction can obtain their units...

Yes, they will be represented as a guild, so will the other crusaders. Maybe the first faction that builds a master guild will get their units? And maybe you can only build one crusader guild?

[Dirty Harry]

They will probably be a Guild one can obtain after certain events, such as the Crusades conquering Jerusalem and/or other prerequsites. They shall be pretty much recruitable to those factions that can get that guild. It may be unique so that only one faction can obtain their units...

Dunno about factions "winning" and unlocking them..I think they're better as some kind of independant force more alligned with the pope. They were pretty much everywhere, if you've ever read Ivanhoe you'd know they were big in England back then too.

[Farnan]

I know. They did have a grand master and were pretty much their own men but the Pope did give them a lot of power later. And evidently they were a major force in Europe if the King of France felt threatened by them enough to throw the inquisition on them.

The King of France did not feel threatened by them, he was simple greedy and slighted by them. The Templars were rich and had a ton of gold, something the king wanted. Also, they wouldn't allow the King of France to become a Templar.

[Perikles]

I am just reading the book called the 'Last Templar', it is a bit Da Vinci-esque, but still includes lot's of facts and is an interesting read. The book challenges Questions such as why did the templars become so rich so quickly? But you must remember that it is a fiction book....

[JMF]

If you're interested in the Templars have a look at M. Barber's The New Knighthood: A History of the Order of the Temple and Helen Nicholson's The Knights Templar. Similarly Bernard of Clairvaux's In Praise of New knighthood will give you an idea of what the Templars were meant to be about; it's a very idealised!

JMF

[GVP]

They will probably be a Guild one can obtain after certain events, such as the Crusades conquering Jerusalem and/or other prerequsites. They shall be pretty much recruitable to those factions that can get that guild. It may be unique so that only one faction can obtain their units...

You're right. The FAQ on http://totalwar.com
confirms this. But I don't think only one faction can have a particular guild.

[Ewan]

I think at most the knight templars will be a regional troop or a troop u gain from startin a crusade. It is likly though that CA will take advantage of the sudden intrest in the Knight templar thx to books such as the da vinci code.

[Cayo_Julio_Cesar]

sigh...another Da Vinci Code disiple....... i'll make a book about how templars were aliens , scotland won WW2 , and the Pope is really an android made by the CIA, bet it hits best seller

About the templars, they can't be a faction i mean....howm any of them where? its tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ahistorical considering that MTW just takes NATIONS.

[Deadeye313]

I'm not a disciple of Da Vinci code. I just liked the movie and liked the whole templar story that it revolves around.

The Templar have become very famous lately and after seeing how influential they were back in the middle ages, I was just wondering if they would be in.

If for no other reason, the white tunics with the red cross is just so cool.

also, The History Channel stated that the king of France owed the Templar money. He got rid of them so that he wouldn't have to pay them back, not because he wanted to steal from them. Though, in the end, it's probably the same thing.

[guyyug]

deadeye is probaly right, also the templers were formed after the first crusade to protect traverlers going to and from jerusalem, both muslem and christian and anyone else for that fact. at first there was a small group of knights and their ranks begain to swell. they werent an army but more of a knightly police force protecting people.

when the french king burnt them as hereitics the templers leader cursed him, guess wat the king died 3 months later

[Valus]

The sole reason for why they shouldnt be included as a faction is that there were too few of them around! I would say that there where around 300 Templar Knights in the Holy Land, by the time of Saladin.. Though I dont know how many sergeants and infantry were avaible to the knightly order...
There way of fighting was a very defensive one, to use castles/keep to control the countryside and to use smaller groups of knights to attack an enemy when the situation required it... But they would probably withdraw to their castles when they were invaded...

So having them as a factions would essentially mean that you were in charge of their forts and castles and having a huge set of gold at your disposal but without having a larger army to compete with the other factions in the area...

edit: Though it would be interesting to have them as a sort of emergin faction that cant be played...

[Diomedes]

Another good book for christian military orders, is the Monks of War.

Personally I reckon the Templars are over rated everyone forgets the Knights of St. John the Hospitallar, the Knights of the Reconquiesta and the Teutonic orders.

Did you know there was a group of knights who were lepers! Now that would make for an interesting fight

[Valus]

Personally I reckon the Templars are over rated everyone forgets the Knights of St. John the Hospitallar, the Knights of the Reconquiesta and the Teutonic orders.

Yes I agree....Especially the Hospitaliers since they were imo just as important for the christian kingdom in the holy land...
Though the Teutonic knights wasnt formed until 1191, which is relatively late in the crusading era, which could also explain their relative "insignificanse" in the holy land...
I mean it was the Hospitaliers that held the strongest fortess of them all in the holy land, Crak de(s?) Chevaliers but also kept their focus on the holy land even after the real crusading era had ended whilst the Templar Knights had been annihilated and the Teutonic Knight had shifted their interest towards the baltic area....

I dont know that much about the knights of the reconquista to really present a valuable argument for their cause...

[StarDreamer]

Yes I agree....Especially the Hospitaliers since they were imo just as important for the christian kingdom in the holy land...
Though the Teutonic knights wasnt formed until 1191, which is relatively late in the crusading era, which could also explain their relative "insignificanse" in the holy land...
I mean it was the Hospitaliers that held the strongest fortess of them all in the holy land, Crak de(s?) Chevaliers but also kept their focus on the holy land even after the real crusading era had ended whilst the Templar Knights had been annihilated and the Teutonic Knight had shifted their interest towards the baltic area....

I dont know that much about the knights of the reconquista to really present a valuable argument for their cause...

The Teutonic order crusaded mostly in the baltics, so it isn't that odd that they had barely anything to do with the holy land...

[Valus]

Which I say in my above post:

and the Teutonic Knights had shifted their interest towards the baltic area....

Hovewer they were still active in the Holy Land though I cant remember what their strongholds were atm.. I mean look at how long their hq was located in the ME! In 1291 they from Acre to Venice and then in 1309 to Prussia...
So it is evident that they still had an interest in the Holy Land and that they were forced to move when the holy land was lost.

[Deadeye313]

perhaps the Templar could be the mercenaries for the game. If you donate a lot of money to the templar, they could make units available to you. If you're family member is in a region, instead of or next to the mercenaries available could be different sizes of templar cavalry groups. The more money you donate the more templar available in any particular area.

the donating would be like the giving of tribute is now. You set an amount, and every turn that amount is sent to the templar. In return, bigger and bigger cavalry (maybe geography could limit it; won't be many in some parts) of templar would be available depending on how much you send each turn or over a number of turns.

The templar cavalry could come with like bronze weapons and/or chevrons and the more you fund them, the better their equipment when you ask for their help. I say ask, because you're already paying for them.

That could be a way to work them in.