America's - New Spain, ... S.O.S!!!

[PrestigeX]

Hey everyone, Happy New Year!

I'm hoping to receive a little advice with my New Spain campaign in the Kingdom's Americas game.

I'm about 40 turns in, the english and french have arrived. I finally annihilated the Mayans but - it was a long and bloody effort. Now I'm facing up against the Aztecs, and they're like Mayans on Steroids -- fully stacks of Jaguar Warriors, Chichamecs, Coyote Priests -- all of their best stuff...

The trouble I'm having is effectively couterring them. I figured out against the Mayans, that I needed to loot the new cities else face revolt that wouldn't turn rebel but Mayan (annoying).

The Muskets and Arquebusie, and even Crossbow troops -- seem utterly useless vs. the Natives because of their speed, and the slow rate of fire / weak melee of said troops.

Canon has been invaluable, but I still cannot recruit Culverins (just a few left over from script events etc)

I assumed that the muskets/xbow, and pikes -- are all going to be usefull vs the English/French, but what kind of armies do I need to use vs. aztecs.

Should I be relying primarily on 'native bows' and 'native warriors' -- or should my armies be entirely spainsh infantry (foot conquistadors, sword'n'buckler, sword militia).

The Cavalry is essential to chase down those pesky archers/javeline troops, but -- they're no where near as devastating as they should be -- ugh. The Aztecs are whooping me badly (and I normally find myself to be a good player, esp in battle-mode), I need some tips.
Thx in advance =)

[TWWolfe]

Foot conquistadores will utterly crush anything the aztecs can throw at them, so all you need is for them to hold the line while using your cavalry to circle around and smash into the already-engaged enemy troops.

[Aeratus]

To me, the key is the cavalry. Charge, pull back, charge again, and they all die. Make sure your cavalry charges in a line, i.e., each cavalry is targetting a different unit in the charge. Make sure all cavalry units hit home simultaneously at about the same time. With 5 units of cavalry charging at once, you can probably rout an entire stack in two charge cycles.

Don't hesitate to charge cavalry into Aztec spearmen head on.

As far as missile units go, Native archers are far superior to musketeers and crossbows. Musketteers and crossbows are quite poor because of the lack of numbers, and slow rate of fire. The natives have no armor, so the AP ability of muskets and xbows are put to waste. Each unit of native archer is worth 2 units of musketeers.

[mesor]

My standard army is 6 mounted conquisadores split into 2 squadrons on my flanks each of them guarding 1 cannon unit.
4 dismounted conquisador 2 in the center 2 on the flanks.
4 Riflemen units ( superior range plus its good practice for later when your archers will get laughed at by british and french soldiers ) plus 4 sword and buckler men to fill the line between dismounted conquisadors.

Take the high ground your rifles have superior range already high ground extends that then there better for specific targets.
I always hold fire until enemy general is in range then have all 4 units hit him at once it almost always routes the unit.
Infantry line stays just above the bottom of the hill with cannons nexto rifles on the flanks pounding the enemy flanks 2 of the 3 cavalry on each flank swings wide and slams into the flank unit side and back always routing that unit then the 3rd unit joins them cannons and rifles target routing enemies and cavalry swings wide each unit targets 1 enemy unit so i have 6 seperate charges and route 6 enemy units effectively there only battle line left is the center.
Infantry converges on them and surrounds it while cavalry chases down enemy missile units and then runs down units who escaped the cannon and rifle attacks.
Sword and buckler men are a match for the very best of elite natives and once they gain a little experience can best them 9 times out of 10 conquisadors on foot will rip them apart but there defensive units and numbers can hurt them so i tend to just let the enemy get tired coming to me lower morale with rifles taking down the general and then use them as an anvil for my cavalry hammer.

With that my worst casulties was the first battle ( i fought 3 full stacks at once ) and it cost me about 1/4 of my army because the enemy were tired and shaken before they even hit my line.
My infantry were a little bloodied but in good order had rested between waves and held high ground removing the enemy charge bonus.
Each follow up wave ran past routing units which lowered morale.
Cannon was mauling the biggest clusters lowering it even more.
Rifles from 2nd wave onwards targeted enemy frontline until general entered range then he was wiped out by the rifles.
Effectively by the time the enemy hit my line they were shaken and all it took was 1 massed charge to break them then chase them down in order of elite to militia men.
Some escaped as they got closed to the 3rd stack and my cavalry fell back but not many.
Then my cavalry swung round the flanks and killed the general my infantry line charged them head on cavalry 1 unit hit each flank 4 units hit the center back 3rd stack broke and ran in seconds.


Its always just a matter of morale.
Focus fire on general and the elites first your men have shields and armor so archers do low damage and can be ignored.
Route the best and the weaker units will quickly break.
You can edit that tactic to focus archer fire it's more effective for doing large casulties but less effective for taking out specific units early on because of the more limited range plus gaining xp for your rifles is invaluable when fighting europian nations because your rifles can far out stripe theres.
( plus i enjoy the sight of the enemy line going from heroic charge to bloody ruin in 1 volley. )

[lolIsuck]

Shouldn't a few units of conquistadores be able to win everything, it isn't that hard to beat an arfmy of inferior infantry with a few units of good cavalry. I do it all the time in TATW, haven't played kingdoms for a while but it should be the same;P

[Macunaíma]

Natives are underestimated. I destroyed the English Colonies in 3 battles, one for each of their armies. I just used native mercenaries, the only "European" unit was the general bodyguard. So, always fill some spaces in your stack with natives, to give it numbers and some expendable units.

[diez]

ALWAYS countercharge with your conqistadores.shoot with missiles as they are coming then move them to a safe place,that u can still shoot from there.
But your strongest weapon is your cavalry.Send your dragoons to skirmish the enemy elites from the very start,have your heavy cav near and be ready to sieze the opportunity,then charge-retreat-recharge all the way,till they get to your missiles range,then just retreat your cav and prepare them for the hammer and anvil strike,or something even better,is to charge the enemy infantry just before they charge your own infantry,then retreat them,and charge with your own infantry,and go for hammer and anvile.Also with your dragoons you can skirmish the enemy elites to lure them,in a big chase which will draw them from the real battle.Also beware that hitting a unit gunpowder or artilery,will reduce their morale dramatically,perhaps a cavalry charge too,and the chain reaction will soon start...
I was playing myself as the appache and I always had a hard time vs the Spaniards...DESTROY THE BARBAROUS EUROPEANS!

[Silverheart]

Cavalry is the key.
All "native" units are susceptible to cavalry charges, since most of them are lightly armoured and have relatively poor attack - even their spearmen are no match as long as you charge them from the rear.
Have you ever played the historical battle "Battle of Otumba" in vanilla? Play that battle, and when you win you´ll know that you are ready to deal with the Aztecs.

[Macunaíma]

Have you ever played the historical battle "Battle of Otumba" in vanilla? Play that battle, and when you win you´ll know that you are ready to deal with the Aztecs.

I always thought this battle easy. I don't think it is a true test for the Americas campaign. You have to be ready to deal with huge numbers with much smaller armies than that.

[Mhaedros]

I use the native merc as fodder, while my european elite troops fland them and massrout everything

[Aeratus]

I thought the Americas campaign was easier than that battle because you can get more cavalry. After I got about 5 units of Conquistadores cavalry in my main army I was destroying full stacks of Aztecs while losing only about 30 men each battle (on default unit size) as long as there weren't too many trees on the battlefield. A frontal cavalry assault can melt the entire native army in seconds.

[PrestigeX]

Thanks for the different tips -- I think I'll concentrate more on the Conquistadors and foot swords -- rather than muskets/xbows/pikes/and other spanish units.

I'll try to add more cavalry and less infantry. I just been finding my cav dying really easy - quickly surrounded and dead.

Even to make a good, large force as Spain -- the enemy will surround me with 3 full stacks and having to fight them as they approach in all directions, plus the trees/jungle -- hard.

[lolIsuck]

Do not let your cav continue fighting after the charge, they have relative low attack and defense compared to heavy infantry and they are fewer in number.
Cav can be best used in the charge and retreat tactic as discussed in this thread here.
Charges are way more effective, the enemy will rout much sooner. Charges kill a lot of enemies in a short time wich effects enemy morale way more then a long continuous loss of men

[PrestigeX]

Do not let your cav continue fighting after the charge, they have relative low attack and defense compared to heavy infantry and they are fewer in number.
Cav can be best used in the charge and retreat tactic as discussed in this thread here.
Charges are way more effective, the enemy will rout much sooner. Charges kill a lot of enemies in a short time wich effects enemy morale way more then a long continuous loss of men

I'm just having some trouble with getting them to disengage -- they'll charge, and If I have say 4 units -- there will be 1 unit that just won't escape and will be slaughtered.

Aztecs are spamming armies with nothing but Jaguar Warriors - and other top notch troops, have to break them down so I can face their cheaper / last resort forces . Charges and muskets and all the 'scary stuff' doesn't phase the Jaguars much

[Aeratus]

Are you charging from the front? Charging into the front is much more effective than from the side or in the back. Also, to make them disengage, just rapidly right-click.

[Silverheart]

It´s way more effective to charge the enemy from the rear - they take more casualties, and you lose fewer men because a) you won´t get needless losses due to the enemys´ charge bonus and b) the enemy won´t be able kill that many of your men because they have to turn around first, so you´ll have about two extra seconds.
Though you still have to be pretty quick to order your cavalry to retreat the same second they bash into the enemy - every second counts in that situation!

Charging the enemy from the front means you´ll suffer maximum casualties with minimum damage to enemy morale - both of which can be switched completely when you charge the enemy from the rear in stead.

[lolIsuck]

There are problems with charging from the back, the enemy has to stand still for it to be more effective then charging from the front and that only happens when engaged from the front. Ain't not possible with full cav armies is it then, darling?

[Silverheart]

There are problems with charging from the back, the enemy has to stand still for it to be more effective then charging from the front and that only happens when engaged from the front. Ain't not possible with full cav armies is it then, darling?

I can bet that you´re not a cavalry-heavy person, otherwise you wouldn´t be saying that...
All you need to do is slow them down, which can be done by having them chase after some of your units and maneuver them around a little.
Every time I lead battles, my cavalry is always first in and doing most of the work, more often than not without any support from the foot-troops. And from personal experience, I always score more dead enemies with a charge from the rear in comparison to a frontal one

Since you lose way more men if you have your cavalrymen charge headlong into the enemys´ own charging troops, and they´re not protected in the back, it´s much more beneficial to master cavalry maneuvering tactics than to simply dash forward in the simplest manner
I agree that a simple full-frontal charge is often just as good if we´re talking about heavy elite horsemen against an enemy that is made up of foot archers and/or light infantry.

[Aeratus]

If your cavalry way outclases the enemy, I think it's better at the front. This is because when you're charging from the front, the enemy maintains formation, and are orderly. This means they all get crushed at once. If you charge at the back, the enemy is not in a straight line, so the damage decreases because your cavalry won't charge all the way into the enemy. For some strange reason, the charge mechanic screws up when the enemy is not in an orderly line and the cavalry simply doesn't go all the way.

Charging from the front also means that you can have all cavalry units hit the enemy simultaneously, for one huge impact.

If your cavalry is weaker than the infantry (such as conquistadores vs. Giltine's Chosen), it's better to charge at back. But native infantry is weak, and if you have 8-9 conquistadores units, you can rout the entire stack in a single frontal charge, with all cavalry simultaneously home at once.

There are problems with charging from the back, the enemy has to stand still for it to be more effective then charging from the front and that only happens when engaged from the front. Ain't not possible with full cav armies is it then, darling?

Right, that's what I meant -- and you beat me to it in the reply.

[lolIsuck]

I prefer playing Elves yes so I spam massive archer stacks but with every other faction I use a lot of cavalry and in my experience charging from the front works very well, of course when the enemy is stopped by my infantry I charge units in from the back but that isn't possible in full-cav armies (yes I use full-cav armies) since that would require me to either make them both charge on about the same time on the same unit (very rare unless I outnumber the enemy meaning never) or go make difficult mathematical calculations conserning speed and distance travelled and I'm not that good at maths) or one unit would have to stay in melee and get slaughtered (wich I prefer not to happen)