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Thread: NEW: Gondor Unit Overhaul V2.0 for TATW 3.2

  1. #41

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by paradamed View Post
    No, you dont need permission to release compatible versions with other submods. I think that Baron Samedi's submod is the most played right now, a compatible version would be very welcomed. Thanks for this cool submod!
    He is right!!
    Shogun 2, no thanks I will stick with Kingdoms SS.

  2. #42
    baz44331's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Very nice work here!! well done! rep+

  3. #43

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Looking at the units again I think them a real step forward, as a player I prefer units that I have history with. I actually prefer upgrades to lots of new units, just my preference. Anyway thanks and rep

  4. #44

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    You guys need to forget about "balance"... there is no such thing in a personal mod, that is what 3.0 is... KK is an EXTREMELY experienced total war player making a challenging game for himself... there are few on this forum who have the experience with all aspects of the game that KK does so the game is inherently unbalanced... put in the characters and such you want and then change stats the way you think you should... it takes an hour to change stats around... in the current version orc spearman cause more damage than gondor infantry to make the game harder... I find that BS so I increase recruitment of orcs and decrease damage to make it more "balanced" for me.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by orclover View Post
    You guys need to forget about "balance"... there is no such thing in a personal mod, that is what 3.0 is... KK is an EXTREMELY experienced total war player making a challenging game for himself... there are few on this forum who have the experience with all aspects of the game that KK does so the game is inherently unbalanced... put in the characters and such you want and then change stats the way you think you should... it takes an hour to change stats around... in the current version orc spearman cause more damage than gondor infantry to make the game harder... I find that BS so I increase recruitment of orcs and decrease damage to make it more "balanced" for me.
    The core statement of your post is that everyone has his personal opionion on balance and I can only agree. Luckily for everyone of us, changing stats is easy, I am no modder and changed quite a lot in my game with the help of a few tutorials.

    I added a few units from various submods, changed stats of existing ones and changed a few models (which I didn't made of course)

  6. #46

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta_02_Cat View Post
    The core statement of your post is that everyone has his personal opionion on balance and I can only agree. Luckily for everyone of us, changing stats is easy, I am no modder and changed quite a lot in my game with the help of a few tutorials.

    I added a few units from various submods, changed stats of existing ones and changed a few models (which I didn't made of course)
    Well said +rep

    Few mods really alter balance only AUM comes to mind as truly altering balance, Rhun owns Dale around turn 90 but it is relatively easy to fix in the EDB. Dale usually owns Rhun in Vanilla though so even then positives are gained with these excellent mods.

    There is enough information on these forums that balance is our own responsibility in our own play.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    I want to throw in my appreciation and congrats on this excellent sub mod concept. I am a diehard Gondorian player and your concept is most welcome and recquired!
    Me thinks the Mighty Kong may add this to TATW...I hope the good fellows at MOS do at least!+REP

  8. #48
    Civis
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    hi!, i have the AUM mod installed,( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254552 ) what changes do i need to do to the edu, and specially the other one in order to make this compatible, i have absolutly no idea what to do there.
    Your units look amazing and i dont want to start a new campaign to use them.
    thanks!

  9. #49
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    I'm having issues playing...I'm trying to play custom battles with them and it isn't letting me start the battle. The game crashes. Haven't tried campaign yet...
    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

  10. #50

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Wow very nice upgrades, especially for a newcomer.
    I would like to make a suggestion, though I am not sure if you can/or will do that. During my new campagne with Vanilla 3.1 as Gondor, I thought there is a lack of a Milita Spear-Unit. Until Gondor Spearmen are available and that might need 100+ Turns, there is almost no weapon against Harad Cavalry. I think it might be quite easy for such a good modder like you, to create a Gondor Milita Spearman out of the Gondor Milita Swordman, or?
    I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

  11. #51
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
    Wow very nice upgrades, especially for a newcomer.
    I would like to make a suggestion, though I am not sure if you can/or will do that. During my new campagne with Vanilla 3.1 as Gondor, I thought there is a lack of a Milita Spear-Unit. Until Gondor Spearmen are available and that might need 100+ Turns, there is almost no weapon against Harad Cavalry. I think it might be quite easy for such a good modder like you, to create a Gondor Milita Spearman out of the Gondor Milita Swordman, or?
    Taro has made such a unit, but he hasn't released it yet.
    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

  12. #52

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    A long post again
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjudant-Major View Post
    You certainly plan the other units as well - will you continue with Rohan, Eriador, Arnor and Dale ?
    I would like to work with other units and certainly do plan to do so. Be sure to expect an update this week. I am not sure about other factions for now, there are still some Gondorian units to work with. I will see how it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMANICUS View Post
    I want to throw in my appreciation and congrats on this excellent sub mod concept. I am a diehard Gondorian player and your concept is most welcome and recquired!
    Me thinks the Mighty Kong may add this to TATW...I hope the good fellows at MOS do at least!+REP
    Very glad to hear that!

    Quote Originally Posted by campesino View Post
    hi!, i have the AUM mod installed,( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254552 ) what changes do i need to do to the edu, and specially the other one in order to make this compatible, i have absolutly no idea what to do there.
    Your units look amazing and i dont want to start a new campaign to use them.
    thanks!
    Downloading the AUM mod now. Will see if I can release a version for it today. It should be save-compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    I'm having issues playing...I'm trying to play custom battles with them and it isn't letting me start the battle. The game crashes. Haven't tried campaign yet...
    The only reason I can think of is that you have other mods installed. This submod only works with clean 3.1 version for now. I am afraid it does not work with 3.0. However it is save-compatible with 3.1 patch and saves from 3.0, tested. If you are using any other submods please tell which one and simply attach the export_descr_unit.txt and battle_models.modeldb files to your post. It will take a couple of minutes to edit. Then I could reupload it for you and other people using same mod as you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
    Wow very nice upgrades, especially for a newcomer.
    I would like to make a suggestion, though I am not sure if you can/or will do that. During my new campagne with Vanilla 3.1 as Gondor, I thought there is a lack of a Milita Spear-Unit. Until Gondor Spearmen are available and that might need 100+ Turns, there is almost no weapon against Harad Cavalry. I think it might be quite easy for such a good modder like you, to create a Gondor Milita Spearman out of the Gondor Milita Swordman, or?
    Agreed, my armies were quite useless against them. Thanks for the idea. This is probably where the work will be resumed. By the way, I am very new to this, and I have not worked with .mesh files yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    Taro has made such a unit, but he hasn't released it yet.
    Good! May be I could release it faster than him.


    EDIT: Attached file is for AUM 3.0 (TATW 3.1). Simply extract the file and put the "data" folder into ".../mods/Third_Age_3" folder. Overwrite the files. You will need to have AUM 3.0 first. This does not change what AUM adds in any way, only adds armor upgrades for Gondor militia. Please reply if it works, then I can properly upload it and provide a link in the first post.
    Last edited by G|I|Sandy; January 03, 2012 at 04:08 AM.

  13. #53
    baz44331's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    ok just installed your mod! no problems at all. mods i have installed is:BunnyPoopCereal Launcher,Heroes Mod for TATW 3.1,New Menu Background Video 1.1,Permanent_projectilesTATW3.1.

    Your mod works no problems at all with these mods.

    thx for all your work again!!! hope it going in the official mod!

    Ps: could you make one for Arnor

  14. #54

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by ALHIMIK View Post
    [CONTENTBOX="A long post again"]Agreed, my armies were quite useless against them. Thanks for the idea. This is probably where the work will be resumed. By the way, I am very new to this, and I have not worked with .mesh files yet.
    Well, it's good to have such a Spear Milita at the begin of the campaigne.
    If you are looking for more ideas, I think I have another one, which could round up the Gondor roster, though Mordor would need some more units as well. But, back to Gondor.
    How about Greenhill Rider. Taro M had once such a unit in his first mod for TATW 2.0, but later in MOS6.1 this unit wasn't included anymore.
    The unit could be made out of Gondor Milita Cavalry, just instead of brownish leather armour, some green dressed rider with the same helmet like the Milita once. That unit should have lance and a good charge against cavalry (good against Harad). That unit should be AOR for Pinath Gelin.
    I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by baz44331 View Post
    ok just installed your mod! no problems at all. mods i have installed is:BunnyPoopCereal Launcher,Heroes Mod for TATW 3.1,New Menu Background Video 1.1,Permanent_projectilesTATW3.1.

    Your mod works no problems at all with these mods.

    thx for all your work again!!! hope it going in the official mod!

    Ps: could you make one for Arnor
    Nice to hear that it works with some other mods as well. Arnor... if inspiration comes. I do not want to leap ahead of my capabilities and time. Will see how it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
    Well, it's good to have such a Spear Milita at the begin of the campaigne.
    If you are looking for more ideas, I think I have another one, which could round up the Gondor roster, though Mordor would need some more units as well. But, back to Gondor.
    How about Greenhill Rider. Taro M had once such a unit in his first mod for TATW 2.0, but later in MOS6.1 this unit wasn't included anymore.
    The unit could be made out of Gondor Milita Cavalry, just instead of brownish leather armour, some green dressed rider with the same helmet like the Milita once. That unit should have lance and a good charge against cavalry (good against Harad). That unit should be AOR for Pinath Gelin.
    I am thinking about spear militia right now. The current idea is to make them the first available unit level 1 mustering hall. Give them no armor at all at the beginning and then provide with a couple of upgrades up to chainmail may be. These men consist of quickly gathered local peasants and farmers, who were given a low quality spear and a buckler, provided with little to no training and used to defend villages in cases of raids by enemies. Spear was the most popular weapon in history because of how little training and investment it required. The stats should revolve around this logic, having low cost, low attack and armor values. However they should have bonus against cavalry.

    Attack - 5
    Total armor - 5
    Armor - 0
    Defense skill -2
    Shield - 3

    Something like that. The current sword militia will come with level 2 baracks. This will make sword militia not available in most regions such as villages. It will reduce the amount of sword militia available, but will provide more diversity. It should makes sense, as learning how to use sword in battle is much more difficult than spear.

    About the greenhill riders, I think they are too special. At this stage I wanted to focus on more general units. I do not know the middle earth lore well, so these kinds of suggestions regarding AOR units and more info about how the look, their background history etc are very welcome. I think it can be a good base for other submods as well.

    Regarding the Baron Samedi's submod. I could not install it for some reason. May be because I wanted to install it in a separate folder. I made a new copy ot Third_Age_3 and renamed into Third_Age_3_BS. Then I showed the new path to the folder in the installer but still it does not work. Can please someone, who has the latest version of BS with all its patches and fixes, attach the export_descr_unit.txt and battle_models.modeldb in here? That would greatly help.
    Last edited by G|I|Sandy; January 03, 2012 at 07:30 AM.

  16. #56
    Plumo's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    I guess militia ought to be armoured with spears instead of swords. Spears are much cheaper to produce than swords, historically.

  17. #57
    paradamed's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Hi guys I made a version of ALHIMIK's mod compatible with BS submod (4.1). Just download tha attachement and replace all similar to the original submod.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Nice work ALHIMIK.

    I agree with the spear militia idea, it makes a lot of sense.


    On the subject of militia, I personally don't think they should be called militia, but rather Gondor Levies. The reason I say this is because Tolkien based Middle Earth on the early dark ages and the term Militia comes from a much later period 1580-90 being the earliest recorded use of the word.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/militia

    Anyway just a thought, keep up the good work.

  19. #59
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by Poosticks7 View Post
    Nice work ALHIMIK.

    I agree with the spear militia idea, it makes a lot of sense.


    On the subject of militia, I personally don't think they should be called militia, but rather Gondor Levies. The reason I say this is because Tolkien based Middle Earth on the early dark ages and the term Militia comes from a much later period 1580-90 being the earliest recorded use of the word.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/militia

    Anyway just a thought, keep up the good work.
    FATW uses the terms levies and militia.

    I think militia can be used appropriately because militia soldiers seem to have at least some training...I have always imagined levies as being handed a weapon and maybe a shield and being led straight into the fight.

    But that's just me.
    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

  20. #60

    Default Re: Gondor Visual Armour Upgrades (Basic Militia)

    Quote Originally Posted by paradamed View Post
    Hi guys I made a version of ALHIMIK's mod compatible with BS submod (4.1). Just download tha attachement and replace all similar to the original submod.
    Huge thanks! However before posting it in the first post someone needs to confirm that it works, just to be safe and avoid unnecessary headache to people. Then I can reupload it and provide links in the first post. Proper credits will be given. +rep

    Quote Originally Posted by Poosticks7 View Post
    On the subject of militia, I personally don't think they should be called militia, but rather Gondor Levies. The reason I say this is because Tolkien based Middle Earth on the early dark ages and the term Militia comes from a much later period 1580-90 being the earliest recorded use of the word.
    I agree with you, could be the name to be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    I think militia can be used appropriately because militia soldiers seem to have at least some training...I have always imagined levies as being handed a weapon and maybe a shield and being led straight into the fight.
    So the idea of having gondor levies as basic low quality quickly gathered spearmen and militia as more trained troops does seem reasonable. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, makes it easier to choose.

    Plans for the next updates
    - Introduce an entirely new basic spear unit - gondor levies
    ----> more of a training for me working with model files
    - Partially rework the current militia armor upgrades
    ----> introduce actual pauldrons instead of just plain textures
    ----> remove the gondorian helmets from unupgraded militia, give only gondorian helmets to max upgraded militia
    ----> revise shield textures, make them more real so to speak, reduce amount of dark, make it more natural

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