NEW: Gondor Unit Overhaul V2.0 for TATW 3.2

[Jackie Treehorn]

Hi Alhimik, I modify the EDB, by using the one from Baron+Il Ducce Mod and import the Gondor Speer Militia. It works without problems. If you like I can send it to you. Just write me your email address.

Cheers

JT

[G|I|Sandy]

Just a quick announcement regarding what's planned for the next update. After thinking about this, i realized i will not be able to work on something i do not enjoy, and so i decided to stick to modding gondor units as for now. The ultimate goal is to make generic gondor units only available at the east part - Anorien, placed ruled by Kings and Stewards directly (Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, and newly captured settlements). The rest will be subdivided into Anfalas, Belfalas, Lebennin, and Lamedon in terms of unit rosters. This are just some ideas, nothing fixed. As implementation of all this would require enormous amounts of work, i will start off slowly with Lebennin region as it is located close to both fronts with Mordor and Harad.

The first target is to make a new AOR unit - Lebennin Guards, or Guardsmen of Lebennin (with 2 or 3 distinct armour upgrades of course). These units are planned to be available in Pelargir, Linhir, and Lossarnach. Not sure if they will be available in level 2 or level 3 barracks. They should be quite professional troops, backbone of Lebennin armies. Lebennin Guards are heavy spearmen unit, equivalent of armoured sergeants in M2TW. Decent armour, decent equipment, quite professional overall. With final armour upgrades they will be slightly weaker than Gondor Spearmen. I have gathered some artwork, made some sketches on paper to have a picture in mind. Please leave your suggestions, comments, what you would like them to look like, best if with detailed description and some artworks.

A new spear model was made based on this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The body is planned to be based on this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But i need to get permission from the author first. The guard has a kite/heater shield. I am still thinking about the shield model. Definetely going to make a new model and textures for that.

It would be best if people could help with suggestions regarding visuals, ornaments? Colors of the clothing etc. Jackie Treehorn suggested a similar unit for Pelargir with an armour piercing spear. Should this be an AP spearmen unit? Something unique. Although that may make them overpowered, as they, literally, will be good against everything. May be lowered attack damage with AP would not be bad.
A map of Gondor provinces:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now I am starting to work on the main body model. This is a difficult one, will keep updated.

A good website for information: http://wiki.lindefirion.net/CategoryGondor

[Jackie Treehorn]

Jackie Treehorn suggested a similar unit for Pelargir with an armour piercing spear. Should this be an AP spearmen unit? Something unique.

No, I had another unit in Mind. Yours is a defensive, blocking unit. The one I had in mind would be an offensive unit. A heavy spear unit which can attack and penetrate heavy Uruk armour. without a shield, or maybe the shield on the back. Similar to medieval halbardiers, or Zulu warrior. The spear would be like a spear which hunter uses to hunt wild boars.

But, I like it that you continue your work, even on Gondor. But, I have some ideas and maybe you like them.
There are alot of Gondor Units in several submods. But, they are quite similar, regarding in armament. Some, more unique units would most likely spice things up.

1. How about a Arbalest, or Pavise Crossbow unit for Gondor? It could be made out of Pelagier Marines. They could have the same dress, just instead of a Javeline a Crossbow, Arbalest, or Pavise Crossbow/Arbalest. Since Pelagier has some Maritime Traditions, such a unit would be justify for Pelagier.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. Axethrower. Either again Pelagier Marines as model, or Lossarnach Axemen.

In wars the involved parties, try to counter meassure their opponents. Since you are looking for AOR units for regions, it would be logical that Lebennin would have some units to counter Harad. Best weapon against Harad light Cavalry would be Spear Units and light Cavalry as well. So, your Spear Unit as Lebennin Guardsmen, is justify as well. Maybe with longer spears, or even a piqeniere unit. Also, a light fast cavalry, with good charge would be the right counter weapon. I remeber those Dol Amrod Squires from Taro_M.

3. But, also Mumakils are a difficult enemy. So, maybe a lighter Ballist unit would be nice to have. Should be quicker, lighter than current Ballist unit. Should have 9-12 Ballists instead of the 3 from vanilla. The bolt should have less range, but quicker fire and more accurate and the unit should be quicker to move.

Maybe I will have some more ideas. Hope you like.

Cheers

JT

[paradamed]

It will be nice to see some aor. That concept is excellent, it is from the M&B mod, right? Do you have any idea how you will represent the upgrades based on that concept? Just curious.

[Mhaedros]

About that map... It's fan art I think, not very good to use For one thing, Gondor never controlled, or wanted to control Enedwaith. Other than that Arnach wasnt a part of Lebennin.

[Beregond]

I'm really excited about you adding more units to Gondor roster, esp AOR ones. And I really like your style.

Merlkir's work would really be a great basis and inspiration for the unit.
You can play with the blazon, incorporating into the symbol the Anchor of Pelargir, and adding five rivers (Lebenning meaning "five rivers" in Sindarin, consisting of leben ("five") + nin ("rivers")), something aking to the image on this blazon

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm not sure about the colour scheme, may be try smth with white and light brown (like marines), adding blue (for water) as well

As for the ap spear, it's not the best idea imo, ap should better be reserved for halberds and axes

[G|I|Sandy]

It will be nice to see some aor. That concept is excellent, it is from the M&B mod, right? Do you have any idea how you will represent the upgrades based on that concept? Just curious.

Have not played M&B mod. Not sure... I will try to make each region's troops distinctive in their looks yet not very different.

No, I had another unit in Mind. Yours is a defensive, blocking unit. The one I had in mind would be an offensive unit. A heavy spear unit which can attack and penetrate heavy Uruk armour. without a shield, or maybe the shield on the back. Similar to medieval halbardiers, or Zulu warrior. The spear would be like a spear which hunter uses to hunt wild boars.

1. How about a Arbalest, or Pavise Crossbow unit for Gondor? It could be made out of Pelagier Marines. They could have the same dress, just instead of a Javeline a Crossbow, Arbalest, or Pavise Crossbow/Arbalest. Since Pelagier has some Maritime Traditions, such a unit would be justify for Pelagier.

2. Axethrower. Either again Pelagier Marines as model, or Lossarnach Axemen.

3. But, also Mumakils are a difficult enemy. So, maybe a lighter Ballist unit would be nice to have. Should be quicker, lighter than current Ballist unit. Should have 9-12 Ballists instead of the 3 from vanilla. The bolt should have less range, but quicker fire and more accurate and the unit should be quicker to move.

Interesting. I would say professional troops would go for armour and use left hand for shield instead. This style of fight is used by hunters and fits more for guerilla warfare type of troops. May be ithilien hunters or something. Lebennin guards however are more of a backbone armies. They must hold their lines to all sorts of threats, imho.
1. If we want to make a complete new roster for lebennin region, then we need ranged units as well to be recruitable in bowyers/archery ranges. I believe many would disagree on a crossbow unit. Not sure if it fits. We need other people's opinion on this one.
2. Unless given only 2-3 axes per unit, axethrowers units in general do not seem realistic to me. They are practicly same as pelargir marines as they are also skirmishers. There is no need to have similar troops i think. A good suggestion. Instead, i am thinking they would fit into Lamedon regional roster. These guys seem to be more aggressive and less professional. My original idea about Clansmen of Lamedon was to make them 2h-swordsmen, similar to Scottish 2h-swordsmen in M2TW. An axethrowers skirmishers unit would complete their barracks infantry roster.
3. I was thinking of working on siege equipment as well. Interesting, reminds me of roman scorpions. If i have time, why not.

About that map... It's fan art I think, not very good to use For one thing, Gondor never controlled, or wanted to control Enedwaith. Other than that Arnach wasnt a part of Lebennin.

Arnach is then a part of?.. If you have a better map, please share it.

You can play with the blazon, incorporating into the symbol the Anchor of Pelargir, and adding five rivers (Lebenning meaning "five rivers" in Sindarin, consisting of leben ("five") + nin ("rivers")), something aking to the image on this blazon.

I'm not sure about the colour scheme, may be try smth with white and light brown (like marines), adding blue (for water) as well

As for the ap spear, it's not the best idea imo, ap should better be reserved for halberds and axes

Anchor of Pelargir will definetely be one of the main ornaments on their shields. As for other ornaments i have no clue how they should look. I will just improvise, try something and see how it goes. I like the main color theme you suggested. Probably will go with it. AP is op on spearmen. I just wanted to see reaction of people. Although i like it very much, its would make spearmen too strong.

I was trying to make the unit use spears as main weapon and switch to swords when ordered to attack via "alt" button. The engine does not work properly with two melee weapons. The troops automatically switch to secondary weapon when engaged in melee. Also, when they charge they stop right before the charge and take their swords out and engage with swords. The engine recognizes primary weapons as ranged, i believe, and switches weapons to secondary. I now understand why other mods have not made such a unit. It is set then, Lebennin Guards will be ordinary spearmen with better armour than gondor militia.

Appreciate your suggestions/ideas. It is really helpful.

[clone]

i want to isntall Real Combat 1.4.1 along with barons mod. will this be compatible with them

[G|I|Sandy]

i want to isntall Real Combat 1.4.1 along with barons mod. will this be compatible with them

Install BS5.0 on clean TATW3.1, then install the v1.2 for BS5.0 and RC1.3 from the first post on top of BS5.0. It worked for me. Unfortunately there was no RC1.4 version compatible with BS5.0 at that time. Not sure if there is such version now. It is quite easy to make it yourself, only would take some time. I am not willing to do that at the moment.

[clone]

Install BS5.0 on clean TATW3.1, then install the v1.2 for BS5.0 and RC1.3 from the first post on top of BS5.0. It worked for me. Unfortunately there was no RC1.4 version compatible with BS5.0 at that time. Not sure if there is such version now. It is quite easy to make it yourself, only would take some time. I am not willing to do that at the moment.

i did what you ask but i have a little problem. i started a campaign as gondor but i cant recruit gondor levies unit.

suggestion. what about making gondor levies an aor unit make it only recruitable in distant cities and reduce the recruitment of heavy troops in them

[Aguirre]

can I get this to work with a call to arms?

[G|I|Sandy]

can I get this to work with a call to arms?

Hi. You can't get this to work simply by putting everyting together into data folder. It can be made compatible with a little editing and proper merging of export_descr_unit.txt and .modeldb files. I have not been working on this lately, so may be someone else will offer help.

[Aguirre]

Thanks mate! yes is there someone willing to do this? Im utterly retarded when it comes to being useful

[Mhaedros]

It's really much work, and it's kinda boring too I'm pretty sure noone will be willing to put hours on this

[Araval]

It's really much work, and it's kinda boring too I'm pretty sure noone will be willing to put hours on this

There actually is one, who spent only half an hour for merging the files

Extract the files of the archive, copy the stuff in the folder and paste it to your data folder and overwrite everything.
Most of the backups are there, but not the campaign script, so make a backup of it.
Note this is for vanilla 3.1

Tell me if it works

[Mhaedros]

There actually is one, who spent only half an hour for merging the files

Extract the files of the archive, copy the stuff in the folder and paste it to your data folder and overwrite everything.
Most of the backups are there, but not the campaign script, so make a backup of it.
Note this is for vanilla 3.1

Tell me if it works

I included the downloading time for both mods ofc

[Araval]

I included the downloading time for both mods ofc

Should have known

[sanderman2]

Thanks man! i just wanted to do that myself but nice u did it !

[Shingen]

Because of you Third Age is now so unsatisfying.

I started with other nations but I am always missing the armour upgrades of your Gondor units.



Any plans to do a mod like this for a other nation?
PLEASE do it!

[paradamed]

Check this.