In 60 Years, Middle Earth population grows 6,200%?

[Kolaris8472]

So after finally getting my hands on a Palantir, what I was seeing "encouraged' me to toggle the fow off and have a look around the map at turn 250, 62 years into the game. Here's what I found:

Durthang: Starts with 776 population, had 21,518
Orc Enampment: Starts with 1,244 population, had 28,525
Rhunaer: Starts with 814 population, had 50,712
Gobel Ancaliman; Starts with 1,452 population, had 34,055
Erech: Starts with 452 population, had 13,475
Dunharrow: Starts with 431 population, had 17,125
Elasterion: Starts with 674 population, had 24,714
Annuminas: Starts with 2,203 population, had 30,044

I find it harmful to immersion when every village and wooden castle at the start of the game becomes a settlement on the scale of Umbar or Carn Dum halfway into the game. Every single Rhunnic city was a Large City or Fortress.

For one thing, this creates that hated AI "stack spam" when every territory is an economic and military production powerhouse. It also means that pivotal cities in the lore like Minas Tirith or the Hornburg become trivial. Why does it really matter if you take Umbar when every single Haradrim town now has huge walls and produces top tier troops?

I've heard some complaints about how slow the player's cities grow now, but I quite like the new growth system, it just needs to be applied to the AI. I'd prefer it if every settlement could expect to upgrade only once (at best) over the course of the campaign, to shift the emphasis to critical existing settlements like Rivendell, Moria, Minas Morgul and the like. Just my two cents.

[Newman]

Medieval II (or any TW games before Empire, when population didn't matter much at all) has never been all that accurate in terms of population growth in the first place, but I do agree the player does take quite a hit with population growth while all the AI cities get such a large boost.

[tjd123]

I'm at turn 140 in my Eriador campaign on VH/VH and Annuminas is at 24k pop. The AI get no bonuses from what I am told. Maybe your just not playing the game right.

[k/t]

The AI gets growth bonuses for sure. How else can its settlements grow so much?

You can limit the size that each settlement can have, if you want. In RR/RC (both for TA and SS), only some cities can become Huge, and in TA only some castles can be Citadels. To do so, I think you have to add a hidden_resource to some areas. You can ask in the Mod Workshop.

[Princeps]

Yeah, I agree. I think some cities should have hard population limit that limits them from growing into huge cities.

[Darth Lord Revan]

Yeah, I agree. I think some cities should have hard population limit that limits them from growing into huge cities.

There are several new limits to citys in TATW 3.x some can not go further than town or large town. And some can not build all buildings (like Cair Andros or Henneth Anun) I think its more realistic since some regions were not even citys and, as you said, it gives important citys a greater use.

[Modestus]

I finally went for a mod that gave me game play over “The Lore” because otherwise I should lose.

A no win situation for the creators , you need to have the danger at a level that you really should have no chance except for the luck of a human rat.

Edit: By rat I mean a Hobbit in particular Frodo.

A dilemma similar to HOI3, you need for Germany as the AI to be strong enough to defeat France and attack the USSR but at the same time you need for France as the player to have the capabilities to defeat Germany, in the Third Age its even more problematic because the threat needs to be almost overwhelming and yet you still need that chance of a victory.

[Vespasian92]

Yeah, I agree. I think some cities should have hard population limit that limits them from growing into huge cities.

SS does, and people whine about it. So modders are damned if they do, damned if they don't. There is always going to be somebody upset about the lack of realism, or a lack of gameplayability in settlement levels. Simply put, modders can't win in this issue.

[Mhaedros]

If you dont like something, change it yourself! KK & team cant change everything you ask for, since there aer other people that want it another way

[Jovan90]

I noticed that too, but not as dramatic as you put it to be.
Anyway, I like that kind of help to the AI over the stack spam, ANY DAY.

P.S. You can always occupy those settlements. I got Moria and Isengard both with 20k+, and most buildings already built.

[tjd123]

P.S. You can always occupy those settlements. I got Moria and Isengard both with 20k+, and most buildings already built.

Like I said before, leveling up cities is slower, but not impossible. And the game is made to SLOW down AI. Did you guys notice certain factions cannot build units fast in certain regions? Also certain buildings allow you to get an added pop boost in certain locations. Take Northmen and Gondor for example, you can build livestock farms in grassland regions. So if you take a mountain, forest, or desert region, your growth will be stunted.

[Mikail Mengsk]

For one thing, this creates that hated AI "stack spam" when every territory is an economic and military production powerhouse.

I hardly think so: i think the stackspam is a consequence of the moneyscript.

[Lazy]

I hardly think so: i think the stackspam is a consequence of the moneyscript.

Exactly... there is an extra boost if the AI has only few settlements...
the less regions it has => the more units it can have

BaronSamedisCompilation ftw!

[Maestro Ugo]

This is the problem I pondered often. I guess limiting certain levels of cities to only some key areas might be a good thing for solving this issue. If the city cannot be upgraded squalor will eventually kick in and the city's growth will come to a halt. This might be doable relatively easily with hidden resources - 2 different types giving us 3 possibilities:

No hidden resource - the settlement can only grow to small town
Level 1 hidden resource - the settlement can grow to small city
Level 2 hidden resource - the settlement can grow all the way

It would only be a matter of deciding on the settlements, and the category they belong to.

I can think of 2 more ways of limiting growth:
1) Reduce the growth overall by 0.5% for all settlements, and give all characters no mettter their respect +0.5% to growth - this would slow the growth to all settlements without governors
2) Mod the plague events (if possible ) to strike more often and even in the smaller settlements.

[marceror]

In 60 Years, Middle Earth population grows 6,200%?

Well, finally there's a place where men can get lucky 3 - 5 times per day. I think I'll be moving to ME.

[Costin_Razvan]

That kind of population growth should not be forced on every player, not all think like you do.

[TheXand]

I think it would be detrimental to gameplay to greatly limit growth of cities. If the more anally retentive among us have issues with settlements' growth then they should make a submod limiting it, or try a little harder to envision various push/pull factors that might result in rapid growth in certain cities.