Why in the name of God does Gondor have a bigger army than FREAKING MORDOR

**Gigan** · December 31, 2011, 08:57 AM

This makes no sense lore wise. Gondor has 5 stacks over all, I couldn't even afford that much when I conquered Harad as Gondor! I as Mordor can only afford 3 stacks, and thats after modding nazgul upkeep. And building all economical buildings.

**Mhaedros** · December 31, 2011, 09:04 AM

It's ment to be difficult. If you dont like it, play on an easier level

**Jean=A=Luc** · December 31, 2011, 09:14 AM

AI is always given the advantage over the player for good reason. If you want Mordor to have more troops, play Gondor. The economies aren't the same for human and AI players, never were, never will be.

**Gigan** · December 31, 2011, 09:27 AM

Mordors army probably numbers around in the hundreds of thousands. Gondor had probably 70,000 MAX from all fiefdoms. Its like making dwarves the tallest race, just doesn't feel right.

**Excellion** · December 31, 2011, 08:11 PM

Play "good" factions. You'll ALWAYS be broke, surrounded and outnumbered. Just like in the books/movies. Can't imagine something more lorewise than that, except by the fact I usually get pretty much screwed and have to restart a new campaing using Total Recruitment submod because it sux defending Gondor with a handful of illiterate peasants.

PS: Yeah, I prefered stay playing this mod than watching stupid fireworks in this revellion or be in beach without water with my boring relatives. He whom didn't the same, throw the first stone.

**KnightsTemplar** · December 31, 2011, 09:32 AM

Get submods to get that right.

**Ceza** · December 31, 2011, 09:32 AM

Good for balance bad for lore, but hard enemy is better.

**milkyway487** · December 31, 2011, 10:47 AM

well i agree i changed the game for me buy making all morder units at 250+ all mordor army have almost 5000 troops and all other peoples are about 2500 also a total redo of the economic system.. and 1000 turn game + sub mods and stack spawn, imortal nasgul, and others. + much much more money in the game does not make it any easyer if u do it right the AI will just make much larger armys and more of them so in turn u have to as well. also i did a redo of the archers in the game + making the morder ,misty archers and so on much less damaging to add to the balance of the game. ps i have battles with 40,000 + troops on the field lol works great im play and morder and i all ways out number the enemy 2-1 and i loss some time as well also got the AI moral bonus from 200 to 280 :} makes for a great game on VH/VH just thought i would share thats all.

**Lazy** · December 31, 2011, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by milkyway487

well i agree i changed the game for me buy making all morder units at 250+ all mordor army have almost 5000 troops and all other peoples are about 2500 also a total redo of the economic system.. and 1000 turn game + sub mods and stack spawn, imortal nasgul, and others. + much much more money in the game does not make it any easyer if u do it right the AI will just make much larger armys and more of them so in turn u have to as well. also i did a redo of the archers in the game + making the morder ,misty archers and so on much less damaging to add to the balance of the game. ps i have battles with 40,000 + troops on the field lol works great im play and morder and i all ways out number the enemy 2-1 and i loss some time as well also got the AI moral bonus from 200 to 280 :} makes for a great game on VH/VH just thought i would share thats all.

Little hint... use capital letters and complete sentences!
Use the "enter" key! Such a block of words does look dangerous

It´s nearly impossible to read this!
You have spelling mistakes all over the place and some of the words you are using do have another meaning then you think! ( by != to buy )
This makes your post ( for me ) unreadable as I have to guess some words meaning while having your complete post in mind...
Sorry pal

_______________________________________________

Ontopic:
If you give the AI armies as big as the ones you have the game will be no challange any more!
Usually human players win most/all battles and this way you will get bored...

**Gimli** · December 31, 2011, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lazy

Little hint... use capital letters and complete sentences!
Use the "enter" key! Such a block of words does look dangerous

It´s nearly impossible to read this!
You have spelling mistakes all over the place and some of the words you are using do have another meaning then you think! ( by != to buy )
This makes your post ( for me ) unreadable as I have to guess some words meaning while having your complete post in mind...
Sorry pal

Hes probably from a non-english speaking country...

The AI is given lots and lots more money so they can support massive massive armies.

**Ayleid** · December 31, 2011, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gimli10

Hes probably from a non-english speaking country....

By the sounds of it, neither of them are.. (not that it matters of course!)

Originally Posted by Gimli10

The AI is given lots and lots more money so they can support massive massive armies.

What he's saying does make sense, though.

What would make more sense would be, if it was possible, to have two seperate bonuses for the AI depending upon whether the player is playing as an evil/good faction. Thereby, if you were playing as an evil faction, you could cut down on the amount of money the good factions recieve and instead give them a much buffed morale bonus. This would give the good factions much smaller, but more professional armies and would fulfil the quality/quantity argument nicely.

Not that I know whether it's possible through scripting..

**Dutch-Balrog** · December 31, 2011, 11:36 AM

2nded

**Conqistador** · December 31, 2011, 12:41 PM

3rded

**orclover** · December 31, 2011, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Soul of Doom

This makes no sense lore wise. Gondor has 5 stacks over all, I couldn't even afford that much when I conquered Harad as Gondor! I as Mordor can only afford 3 stacks, and thats after modding nazgul upkeep. And building all economical buildings.

go into export descr buildings and change the recruit pool for gondor, cut it in half... and then double yours. Then go to export desc unit and make your hordes slightly weaker to balance it... Soul you have to remember this is a personal mod for KK, games are too easy for him and he balances it to be a challenge...most of us do not have the knowledge or skill that KK has of this game and so VH,VH is going to be too tough... it is very simple to mod it yourself though.

Also go into campaign script and delete the stack spam script... you can download barons to get a nice balancing script and it disables stack spam. I think the evil peoples should get a collective stack burst in 3016, but just one... if the free peoples survive this burst then the War is on. That means your first 40 years of the game should be prepping for the onslaught building alliances and protecting your allies resources because they are all in trouble by 3019.

**webba84** · December 31, 2011, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Soul of Doom

This makes no sense lore wise. Gondor has 5 stacks over all, I couldn't even afford that much when I conquered Harad as Gondor! I as Mordor can only afford 3 stacks, and thats after modding nazgul upkeep. And building all economical buildings.

Because it is a game and it is supposed to be hard. If you want things to be exactly as they are in the books then go and read the books. Otherwise playing as good factions is always going to feel closer to the lore.

**Gigan** · December 31, 2011, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by webba84

Because it is a game and it is supposed to be hard. If you want things to be exactly as they are in the books then go and read the books. Otherwise playing as good factions is always going to feel closer to the lore.

Its one of Mordors "defining" points.

Originally Posted by Death's Deputy

Just out of interest, did Mordor really have the unlimited numbers that it is commonly believed to have? No doubt that they outnumbered Gondor, but that was including the Haradrim and Easterlings (who in this mod are represented as seperate factions). Moreover the common belief that Mordor had limitless hordes was encouraged still further by the fact that Denethor's visions in the palantir were twisted by Sauron to make him lose hope.

It is said that the army at the black gate was "ten times and more than ten times" more numerous than the Army of the West at the Battle of Morannon.

**webba84** · January 01, 2012, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Soul of Doom

Its one of Mordors "defining" points.
It is said that the army at the black gate was "ten times and more than ten times" more numerous than the Army of the West at the Battle of Morannon.

Yes, I know, I didnt say its not against the lore, I said that the designers cant do anything about it for game balance reasons. My point is not that there is not a problem with immersion because of it but that short of trying to mod it yourself, and I wish you good luck with that, that it is an issue impossible to fix. Morder would be pointlessly easy to play.

**p00pwater** · December 31, 2011, 09:30 PM

i dunno, i haven't modded mine, if you play it right, your economy can be strong, i just played as eriador, and i had about 50k for most of my campaign; however, when i turned to arnor around turn 120, my economy went under, even though i had defeated 0oMm and 0og,

**Death's Deputy** · December 31, 2011, 09:44 PM

Just out of interest, did Mordor really have the unlimited numbers that it is commonly believed to have? No doubt that they outnumbered Gondor, but that was including the Haradrim and Easterlings (who in this mod are represented as seperate factions). Moreover the common belief that Mordor had limitless hordes was encouraged still further by the fact that Denethor's visions in the palantir were twisted by Sauron to make him lose hope.