Synthetic oil

[mattgoby]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Is there any reason why this technique is not being used or at least starting to be used in greater quantities to produce oil? surely it's easier to produce than drilling for it, it is certainly easier than invading another country and fighting for oil. Also it is cheaper to produce than the current cost of a barrel.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

I'm not sure how efficient the process is, but obviously it's not as economical as conventional methods, otherwise it would be used more.

If there is a conspiracy amongst corporations and the US government to start wars, oil isn't the only reason, as there are plenty of corporations which profit greatly from the production of military equipment.

It should definitely be given a go though.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Under pressure and heat

Pressure and heat are very expensive.

[SLN445]

Always about money...

[Tiwaz]

Always about money...

Think about it. Pressure and heat require energy. If that process could make synthetic oil which contains more energy than is used to make it, you would have perpetual motion machine...

Instead, energy sum of oil, or at least what we can put into use, is less than energy required to produce it.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

Think about it. Pressure and heat require energy. If that process could make synthetic oil which contains more energy than is used to make it, you would have perpetual motion machine...

Instead, energy sum of oil, or at least what we can put into use, is less than energy required to produce it.

It's not a perpetual machine. It requires a source of energy. Like all other things people use for energy, it's just converting one thing into antoher. And once the fuel is used up, it's not reusable.

Also, while the heat problem may be solvable by the oil production, the pressure expenses will still remain.

[Tiwaz]

It's not a perpetual machine. It requires a source of energy. Like all other things people use for energy, it's just converting one thing into antoher. And once the fuel is used up, it's not reusable.

Also, while the heat problem may be solvable by the oil production, the pressure expenses will still remain.

It would be perpetual motion machine in principle if it created oil which you can use to get more energy than it takes to make it!

Amount of things you could convert are near limitless. Organic waste is dime for a dozen.

Make first batch of oil, refuel the machine using that oil, use excess to bring more organic waste and so forth.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

It's still not a perpetual machine. It's just a machine with a very abundant fuel source.


Also, I would rather see the organic waste used a fertiliser.

[HissingNewt]

It would be perpetual motion machine in principle if it created oil which you can use to get more energy than it takes to make it!

Amount of things you could convert are near limitless. Organic waste is dime for a dozen.

Make first batch of oil, refuel the machine using that oil, use excess to bring more organic waste and so forth.

Unless there is absolutely no heat waste, you are losing energy in this process. Whether it comes from a source people care about is irrelevant in this case. The fact is that there is a loss of energy equal to heat waste caused by the reaction. Besides, we need to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels before we destabilize the environment too much for it to recover.

[Nikitn]

Think about it. Pressure and heat require energy. If that process could make synthetic oil which contains more energy than is used to make it, you would have perpetual motion machine...

Instead, energy sum of oil, or at least what we can put into use, is less than energy required to produce it.

Nonsense, you are basing your idea on the supposed fact that all our energy coming from oil.

Electrical energy is cheap, more mobile energy sources like batteries and gasoline are much more expensive.


Synthetic fuel has been produced many times, for example Germany during WW2 built up a massive synthetic fuel industry. The problem is though the logistics and acquiring the ingredients at a profitable price. Not even to mention the required infrastructure.. I doubt the energy is the problem - in many places, like Russia, electrical energy is dirt cheap.

If this was profitable, or profitable anytime soon, we wouldn't be drilling 4kms into the sea floor for oil.

Well the oil prices are only going to get higher, and it runs on waste.

We can either let the waste rot away and get directly absorbed by the world ecosystem or we can turn it into fuel, burn it into CO2 and let a fraction of that carbon get absorbed back into the ecosystem.. I duno but this doesn't sound good at all 2 me. Better to just focus on renewable energy.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Nonsense, you are basing your idea on the supposed fact that all our energy coming from oil.

Electrical energy is dirt cheap, more mobile energy sources like batteries and gasoline are much more expensive.


Synthetic fuel has been produced many times, for example Germany during WW2 built up a massive synthetic fuel industry. The problem is though the logistics and acquiring the ingredients at a profitable price. Not even to mention the required infrastructure.. I doubt the energy is the problem - in many places, like Russia, electrical energy is dirt cheap.

He's not claiming it's impossible.

He's just stating the resulting fuel will release less energy than was required to create it.

[Denny Crane!]

He's not claiming it's impossible.

He's just stating the resulting fuel will release less energy than was required to create it.

So everything ain't oil the magic bullet? Big deal what is? Nuclear where instead of energy it takes money? we need to wake up.

[Sphere]

Changing World Technology applied for an IPO on August 12; 2008, hoping to raise $100 million.[23]

The unusual Dutch Auction type IPO failed possibly because CWT has lost nearly $20 million with very little revenue.[24] [25]

CWT, the parent company of Renewable Energy Solutions, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. No details on plans for the Carthage plant have been released

Reading through the wiki quickly, it seems it is profitable if the inputs are free and oil prices are high. The inputs become no-longer free and international oil prices dropped.

And it is not "perpetual motion" system, it requires long chain organic molecules as inputs which have to be made by something, (plant animal or humans) It is just a form of carbon chain cracking done all the time in the petroleum industry. The difference is were the long carbon chains come from.

Synthetic oil from coal would probably be a better system to scale up as there are mountains worth of coal laying around, while Turkey offal is rather trivial. By coal-to-oil is a massively polluting process.

Amount of things you could convert are near limitless. Organic waste is dime for a dozen.

Same thing was said about oil before the internal combustion engine was invented. Prices vary with demand.

[Tiwaz]

And it is not "perpetual motion" system, it requires long chain organic molecules as inputs which have to be made by something, (plant animal or humans) It is just a form of carbon chain cracking done all the time in the petroleum industry. The difference is were the long carbon chains come from.

And it uses far more energy to do the cracking than resulting produced oil has. That is the point.

Using the energy wasted in the production of synthetic oil would be better used directly, unless you for some reason have insanely much practically free energy and need means of storage.

Same thing was said about oil before the internal combustion engine was invented. Prices vary with demand.

Difference is that new organic waste is constantly produced in massive amounts, oil is not.
Organic waste can be anything from your last lunch squeezed out into porcelain throne to some wood chippings. Biggest price for such waste comes from energy required to collect and transport it, but if that waste could be turned into oil at rate where oil energy content is greatly larger than required energy input, it would be trivial expense as process itself could fuel the collection and transportation along with process itself.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Using the energy wasted in the production of synthetic oil would be better used directly, unless you for some reason have insanely much practically free energy and need means of storage.

I imagine oil production will in future be like the production of electricity. Instead of converting heat to electricity, it will simply be converted to chemical energy.

[Hektor27]

It says in there that it cannot process the methane and CO2 gas. Then there's the Fischer-Tropsch process which turn these gas into crude oil using again, heat and pressure.
So neat, I wonder why they are'nt building these factories every where already.

[Logios]

@Tiwaz and others: Try actually reading the attached source in the OP (o.k. wiki, but still..) a little excerpt from this: The CWT company claims that 15 to 20% of feedstock energy is used to provide energy for the plant. The remaining energy is available in the converted product. Working with turkey offal as the feedstock, the process proved to have yield efficiencies of approximately 85%
So yes, the pressure and heat that is needed in the process is nowhere near the energy contained in the product (the CWT company claims).
The reason why this is not implemented in full scale yet is the same reason why other inventions does not get implemented once they are made: It takes time to implement new stuff into an existing society with an existing infrastructure. I have heard 20 years mentioned as a "rule of thumb" for the lag time between invention and implementation with a huge variation of this number of course.

[mattgoby]

it seems it is profitable if the inputs are free and oil prices are high

Well the oil prices are only going to get higher, and it runs on waste.

[chamaeleo]

So neat, I wonder why they are'nt building these factories every where already.

http://www.tysonfoods.com/Media-Room...--Flights.aspx

In my mind, only one question remains: Who Runs Bartertown?!?

[Denny Crane!]

If this isn't profitable with oil at $99 a barrel lets see if it seems more workable when oil is stable at $120 a barrel.

But for anyone who says this isn't as good as oil, well you know, duuuh. Nothing ever will be I suspect but this is a changing world and we'll have to get used to it but the markets will bring this stuff to bear if it is viable. Interesting stuff I've encountered it before in various forms it would be nice to see something marketable and ready to really be brought to bear and rolled out commercially but the price ain't right. They did a similar thing with Whiskey waste water in Scotland where high grade high energy fuel could be created but again there is lag time.