WWII with modern equipment.

[Heathen Hammer]

This is a very odd, yet interesting scenario. So imagine that WWII starts like it did start - but all involved powers have modern-day equipment, sans nuclear weapons. Ie tank-wise USSR has T90s, Germans have Leopards, Americans have Abrams etc.
Economic potential is corresponding to their military capabilities of mid-XX century, but in order to sustain same proportions as then, but with modern weapons and equipment. Same thing with supplies and manpower. Given the technical capabilities, would the outcome of the war be different? If yes, than how? For practical purposes, lets assume that nuclear weapons were never to be developed.

[hellheaven1987]

Germany would not be able to steamroll France with their current equipments...

[Captain Jin]

Germany would not be able to steamroll France with their current equipments...

I dunno... you put the Wehrmacht of the 30s and 40s in modern equipment and I see some pretty terrifying stuff.

One thing is for sure, there would be a lot more dead I think. Or maybe it would be the exact opposite...

[Spike]

I dunno... you put the Wehrmacht of the 30s and 40s in modern equipment and I see some pretty terrifying stuff.

One thing is for sure, there would be a lot more dead I think. Or maybe it would be the exact opposite...

I actually imagine the Return to Castle Wolfenstein's weaponary, plus some jetpack Nazis
French will surrender much quickly than usual

And as usual Americans save the world

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from what era of weaponary? and do you provide some political background why WWII was postponed?

[Sevachenko]

Germany would still do quite well as I feel Russians would lose out. Americans would steam roll hard though .

[Hresvelgr]

from what era of weaponary? and do you provide some political background why WWII was postponed?

I'm assuming he just means magic transforms everything into modern weapon equivalents. If so, then the only change on the Western Front is that Germany is steamrolled even harder. The Germans have some of the most modern stuff, yes, but the Russian T-90 and T-80 tanks can go toe-to-toe with Leopard 2's and hold their own well enough, and the Russians have a lot more of those than the Germans would have Leopards. But the most significant change is the air battle. The only modern combat aircraft the Luftwaffe has are fighters, some of which are decent enough and are capable of standing up to their American and Russian equivalents, and are the same planes the Brits use, but the Germans IIRC were still outnumbered in the air and what they do not have any modern equivalents of are bombers. On the other hand, Russian bombers in our WW2 were quite crappy and not really spectacular, however the bombers they use now are ridiculously capable, including the world's largest bomber, the Tu-160, which is also supersonic and capable of carrying FOABs. Within days most German cities and factories would be reduced to ashes by fleets of B-52s, Tu-95s, B-1s, Tu-22Ms, B-2s, and Tu-160's pounding them day and night.

What changes most would be the Eastern Front, yet Japan would still lose big time. Japan would go from some backwards empire with relatively crappy equipment to an extremely modern and capable force, but their enemies go through an even bigger change. The Japanese steamrolled China because not only was China in the throes of a civil war, but because they were even more behind than the Japanese. However, nowadays the Chinese are just as advanced and just like in WW2 will have much, much more men. And the IJN still would not be capable of defeating the USN, in fact they will be less capable than in the real WW2. And just like the Russian air force, the Russian navy would also see a dramatic rise in capability with modern equipment being granted to them, unlike the Germans whose surface fleet would still be pretty lame.

[hellheaven1987]

I dunno... you put the Wehrmacht of the 30s and 40s in modern equipment and I see some pretty terrifying stuff.

Yet in same time both Britain and France also got modern stuff; Wehrmacht's attempt to cross Rhine would quickly face strong resistance from France by a combination of assault helicopers and infantry AT missile - two important modern elements that effectively kill armor thrust today.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Yet in same time both Britain and France also got modern stuff; Wehrmacht's attempt to cross Rhine would quickly face strong resistance from France by a combination of assault helicopers and infantry AT missile - two important modern elements that effectively kill armor thrust today.

The WWII version of the ATGM, the towed a AT gun was just as effective against early WWII vehicles as ATGMs are today.

You must remember that int he real Battle of France the British and French had massive material superiority to the Germans. The Somua S-35 was the best tank of this period of the war. The Char B1 And Mk II Matilda were tanks that had very powerful guns and had armour resistant to any German tank or AT gun.

Against this the German tank force was 80% Panzer Is and IIs, out of date light tanks far inferior to even French light tanks such as the R-35 and H-39. These French light tanks were easily a match for the Panzer III E/F.

In modern day the Germans would have a tank just as good as the French MBT.

[hellheaven1987]

The WWII version of the ATGM, the towed a AT gun was just as effective against early WWII vehicles as ATGMs are today.

Except AT gun is immobile, difficult to hide and vastly more expensive; the great advantage of AT missile today is not its firepower, but rather its mobility and cheapness that allows infantry to pack large number of missile sets without lost of mobility. Such improvement gives French military an advantage, as it was more infantry focus during WWII.

[Spike]

1) Germans will have less chance if they attack Poland (or east europe) first, Russians will immediately counterattack on the early phase in Polish Invasion, pushing the Germans back, while their quality of equipments is not that high as germans, their sheer numbers, and their equipments is actually tougher in hard conditions, they will definitely win. Plus Russian shock attacks will be effective counter to tank blitz. Especially on relatively open plains.
2) In the other hand, Germans will have easier if they decide to attack French first, no not meant they will surrender at the first sight - let's pretend they have balls to fight, but the quality of French troops equipments is not that as high as Russians and they aren't much numerous, I still remember having articles said french-made weaponary is bugged in Falklands war and that make Argentine lose. While Russian made equipments, well, you can look every insurgents in africa, iraq, vietnam, etc etc, their weaponary is both Cheap, Realible, and tough to any conditions

[Darkhorse]

Few will doubt the abilities of the Argentine pilots of the period, especially those in the A-4 Skyhawks what carried out the low level attacks over San Carlos. They were exceptional, brave and ballsy.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Nukes would prevail.

[KnightsTemplar]

Nukes would prevail.

Nuclear weapons are more like 'deterrants' instead of the 'giant punch' people would think of-
No one sane enough would throw it around.

Not in this case though where no one would properly know what they could do- this is even before the Trinity and the two real deals we are talking about.

[Spike]

Nuclear weapons are more like 'deterrants' instead of the 'giant punch' people would think of-
No one sane enough would throw it around.

Not in this case though where no one would properly know what they could do- this is even before the Trinity and the two real deals we are talking about.

and even when the trinity tests are undergone, some of the scientists actually do betting about the power unleashed from fission bombs, some think it would be a lame dud, but some of them overpredict the powers too, to the point of destroying earth

[KnightsTemplar]

Nobody truly knows what they would do- not until it goes off.
And then most of those scientist who helped build it go 'OhCrap'......

If it exists in 1940-1941, farewell Earth.
Probably some if not most the states would launch ICBMs all around the place just for the hell of it- beware the Mother Russia.

[DarthShizNit]

America wins in a few days . Lol no seriously the equipment of the guys who were the "allies" are leauges ahead of stuff teh japanses could put out, and the germans, while having some nice stuff, lack a lot of it...also B-52's lol

[Hresvelgr]

Wow, so many people missed the part of the OP where he said "no nukes". Happens often for some reason, I guess people just hate reading more than a title and want to fire away with their own diatribes ASAP.

America wins in a few days . Lol no seriously the equipment of the guys who were the "allies" are leauges ahead of stuff teh japanses could put out, and the germans, while having some nice stuff, lack a lot of it...also B-52's lol

^ This. Bombers > 733T German stuff. Not to mention cruise missiles and the like. Germany, Italy, and Japan simply haven't armed for offensives since WW2, so they won't have any modern offensive equipment.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Choppers radically modify the exercise of mobile warfare. It doesn't matter if the Germans had the best Tank force in the world(let's say that they hold the equivalent of their tank-force in nowadays weaponry) the possession of Choppers would have made many of those advantages moot. Especially when transporting foot-soldiers, this is all presupposing that the allies would have gotten the air-space superiority or, on the other hand, things are balanced.

[hellheaven1987]

Choppers radically modify the exercise of mobile warfare. It doesn't matter if the Germans had the best Tank force in the world(let's say that they hold the equivalent of their tank-force in nowadays weaponry) the possession of Choppers would have made many of those advantages moot. Especially when transporting foot-soldiers, this is all presupposing that the allies would have gotten the air-space superiority or, on the other hand, things are balanced.

Germany actually has some most advanced assault helicopper today...

[KnightsTemplar]

The whole Western Europe and America (NATO to be exact) was preparing for Russia mass-assault for years.
Thus the choppers and various CAS crafts.

If we left out the strategic weapons, Germany should be able to hold off Russia for a while.