temporary forts.

[baz44331]

I just like to have a discussion about forts for generals.

They have been disabled for generals in game. But I think it makes perfect sense to have them in game this is due to a full army on the move and just before the assault they need a form up point to launch an assault from just like the army of Rohan did before the battle in the war of the ring. If you have half an army ready and are waiting for more troops to move up and meet so you have a full army ready for the attack the fort makes a good point to wait so the army is not vulnerable to a full attack so it has a chance, If Rohan did it im sure other army's would also do this in middle earth. I can't even count how many times I was waiting for more units to meet a half stack of troops and get attacked by another army only to get heavy losses and have to pull the troops back due to the loss of so many men. The fort makes perfect sense I think. if the enemy army has to assault a small fort he will need to break the walls down which will in turn cause him heavy losses due to friendly archers and then the assault through the break in the wall will cause the attacking army heavy losses. then you have half a chance to have at least three quarters of an army for the fight. what do you guys think? Should forts be returned to the battle field?

[Ultra123]

i dont think they were removed for lore,m but more for gameplay. there are a lot of choke points in ME far more then the real world map, i mean think about it, as gondor, a fort next to river to block harad, a fort a bit to the east of osgiliath, and a fort up at the black gate, there you have it mordor and harad the two 'greats' hemmed in by 3 forts. far too easy, you will be busy building a super economy by the time those factions muster up the grit to ghet through the forts, and by then its far too late for them.

im al for forts being entered into the game again, but they must be super expensive, im talking 3k or something to actually balance it.

[Joshimitsu]

there are a lot of choke points in ME far more then the real world map

personally i find alot of the map quite open, eriador/rohan/rhovanion etc. I'd like to see forts, i like that about total war, its like you have some control over the placement of defences.

[Kosopporkat]

You can also change the cost of forts in descr_cultures, just search for fort_cost and change to whatever you like.

[Savoyard]

i dont think they were removed for lore,m but more for gameplay. there are a lot of choke points in ME far more then the real world map, i mean think about it, as gondor, a fort next to river to block harad, a fort a bit to the east of osgiliath, and a fort up at the black gate, there you have it mordor and harad the two 'greats' hemmed in by 3 forts. far too easy, you will be busy building a super economy by the time those factions muster up the grit to ghet through the forts, and by then its far too late for them.

im al for forts being entered into the game again, but they must be super expensive, im talking 3k or something to actually balance it.

I'm confused why you would limit the player when the exploit is completely up to the player to use. It's like removing cheat codes from the game.

[Kosopporkat]

I'm confused why you would limit the player when the exploit is completely up to the player to use. It's like removing cheat codes from the game.

It could have been for AI reasons. When I enabled forts I noticed Isengard and Rohan spammed an awful lot of forts around Isengard and the Fords of Isen, of course that could be solved by enabling forts to be destroyed when empty.

[Toshach]

It seems nuts to me that there is this freeway over the Anduin, and neither Gondor nor Harad can do anything in the way of fixed defences to interdict it. So it would be a good thing of some small forts added to key locations on the map or the player and AI should have the ability to build them.


Here are ways fort construction could be regulated:

• temporary forts could only be built in specified locations,
• they would take four turns or so to build,
• they should cost a lot, $2500 or so,
• they go away if vacated.

In Empire TW, it is the cost of the forts that keeps one from building them all over the place. This alone would likely prevent fort spamming. Dunno how the AI would handle this though.

[Ultra123]

I'm confused why you would limit the player when the exploit is completely up to the player to use. It's like removing cheat codes from the game.

no intention to limit the player which is why i added make them expensive, ofd course im referring to the official mod, what you do in your personal game files is totally up to you

[Stylix]

@bax44331
If you want to be able to build tempory forts, try this:
(first make a backup of the file)

Open this file: C:\Program Files (x86)\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age_3\data\descr_campaign_db.xml with a text editor.

Search for these lines of text:
<destroy_empty_forts bool="false"/>
<can_build_forts bool="false"/>

Change false to true in the lines, save the file and try it and see if it works.

Cannot remember if it is save game compatible or not.
You may have to delete the map.rwm file first as well.

Try this at your own risk, but I have enabled forts in other mods when they have been removed.

[Descendent of Kings]

absolutely agree. but rather them be forts they would be fortified camps, which have been a part of armies on the move since the invention of such. the same thing has happened to me and its incredibly frustrating because you know your half stack is sooooo close like 2 turns away! ya not saying full on stone forts like the few that have been placed in the game already, but simple wooden ones that a typical army would construct when settling in one area for an extended time. definitely no lore issues here, just standard battlefield tactic. of course if wooden forts aren't an option then I'd vote to leave them out. no army in ME, or any medieval army for that matter, could I imagine building stone forts in a situation where they're waiting for reinforcements or something.

[Ultra123]

those particular places are meant to be that way, ie rohan is a cav faction and would prefer a open battle. plus as rohan if isengard has pushed you out of your bridge defences to the south of it your scrwed, if mordor passes the bridge to the east of edoras en masse your also scrwed, but holding just those 2 points, will save the entire region and possibly the faction. to enable forts would allow more chokepoints generally making it easier.

though if that floats your boat then ive seen quite a few posts across the board about adding forts in multiple mods, simply search or use stylix' instructions and spice your game up to your style of play.

[ajak60]

agreeing with no stone forts being able to be built... but i also think that wooden forts would be a little much as well...

thinking a 1k or 2k cost, and have minor defenses set up (only possible in forest/plains, so not mountains or mordor ashy area) ie. stake perimiter, possible small wooden wall, building HQ(?) in the middle, etc. something small... goes away after 2 turns (1 year gameplay) of being unoccupied, or maybe go into a ruined state where you have to spend $$ to fort defenses (not sure if this is possible).

would be interesting to see something like this enter the mod

[Descendent of Kings]

agreeing with no stone forts being able to be built... but i also think that wooden forts would be a little much as well...

thinking a 1k or 2k cost, and have minor defenses set up (only possible in forest/plains, so not mountains or mordor ashy area) ie. stake perimiter, possible small wooden wall, building HQ(?) in the middle, etc. something small... goes away after 2 turns (1 year gameplay) of being unoccupied, or maybe go into a ruined state where you have to spend $$ to fort defenses (not sure if this is possible).

would be interesting to see something like this enter the mod

nailed it .

[baz44331]

Yes only wooden forts would be the sensible option, Although if the returned they need to be custom made I think to suit the army's.

But I think in a tactical opinion they make perfect sense with enemy army's assault friendly towns and city's they can act as Rally points for friendly army's and be used as a defence point for half stacks. You can only really field two full army's in TATW then the rest of the army's are split up in to groups of four and if you had 4 units in a fort blocking a point then it gives you time that you may need to mobilise more men to stop this force and at then same time stop the enemy force in its track, But I also think they should be very expensive so the commander has to really think before placing one down,

[Rorarii]

I have this problem with fixed forts - attackers ignoring ditches. Anyone know why?

R