Can't ally

[Naja]

I played as the Byzantines and went to war with Venice. Venice was allied to England.

I defeated Venice and wiped them out as a faction. However, the "ally" option in the diplomatic screen is no longer available to me if I enter negotiations with England...even after Venice has been destroyed.

My global reputation is "very trustworthy" and I've bribed England into having "perfect" relations with me.

I know that you can't ally with a faction allied to one of your enemies. But with that enemy destroyed, why am I still unable to offer England an alliance? Will I ever be able to? Is there something in the files I can change?

[irishron]

Did you try right after you destroyed Venice or wait a few turns first? You may have run into one of the quirks in the game's engine.

[Naja]

I waited about 3 turns, and tried diplomacy 5 turns after that. No dice.

[valvegas1]

Are you playing with re-emerging factions? If so then your status with venice will remain after they are defeated and so will England's...So you won't have the option to ally...I ran into this a couple times so far...I think when they do come back if your standing with England is better, England might turn on them when they re-emerge and attack you...then you might be able to ally with England...

[Naja]

Nope, I'm playing vanilla for the most part. No emerging factions. Just a little modding on the side (primarily to textures, some to descr_strat and historical events).

Has anyone been able to ally with your defeated enemy's former ally, after you annihilate that enemy?

[valvegas1]

Nope, I'm playing vanilla for the most part. No emerging factions. Just a little modding on the side (primarily to textures, some to descr_strat and historical events).

Has anyone been able to ally with your defeated enemy's former ally, after you annihilate that enemy?

I think this might be the answer...look for this line in the descr_campaign_ai_db file

<trusted_ally_enemy_auto_war bool="true"/>
// flag to indicate if a faction automatically goes to war with a trusted allies enemy

I haven't tested it but it looks like if you toggle it to false then you won't have this happen anymore...

[irishron]

I have not played vanilla since long before the 1.2 patch was released.

I tried allying once in that time, got too big to suit them, got backstabbed, and have not offered and declined all offers for an alliance since.

[valvegas1]

yeah it's been a while for me since i played vanilla (2008 i think)...i see it often in mods that use re-emerging factions though...

[irishron]

I wonder if the emergence of the Mongols and Timurids could figure into it, then, even if they have not, yet.

[valvegas1]

I wonder if the emergence of the Mongols and Timurids could figure into it, then, even if they have not, yet.

That's possible...I'm tempted to fire up a vanilla game and run it while running my RAM program to see what bits of info is causing it

[Ishan]

Naja you would have to run a test for it. From the looks, it appears that if a faction is allied with some faction and that faction gets destroyed and you were at war with it then the change is set permanent and the option is lost throughout the campaign.

This however can be checked via hotseat campaign. Here is how you can set it up.
1) Choose the faction you want destroyed say France, leave it with only one family character, they will adopt in the next turn etc but set your armies (England) at each settlement to kill them quickly.

2) Then control the 3rd faction (say Scotland) with relations already set as perfect between them, offer an alliance via a pre-placed diplomat close to their settlement.

3) check out the results after that. Do the vice versa also like France offers alliance to Scots.

^Do this and you will know the answer for your question. After the results we can dig for a solution if there is any.