Guards of Osgiliath

[Descendent of Kings]

So I saved my Gondor campaign and decided to do a little cheating to check out rebuilt Osgiliath/GoO (yes I'm impatient like that). Units look beautiful of course, but what threw me off is they have attk 4 and def 6. Shouldn't they be A LOT stronger than that? Even regular gondor militia have better stats. Now I've figured out that type of weapon factors in and what not. Like I noticed other pike units appear to have drastically reduced stats like this (which GoO appear to fall under), I was just curious as to why this, I can understand attk values are low but why are def low as well? Shouldn't that be on the same level as say guards of citadel, especially an elite unit like that? And for the record I have no modding/scripting skill, so if possible simplify as much as you can for me lol

[Ayleid]

I can't speak from experience of playing 3.0, but pike units have drastically reduced stats for the sake of balance. Let me explain, the very nature of any unit facing a wall of pikes makes it very difficut for its soldiers to reach the pikemen, all the while the pikemen can freely attack the opposing unit comfortably, because of the 'wall' of pikes preventing the opposing units from getting close to them. To accomodate for balance, the Guards will have a lower attack than what would be expected, due to the very fact that they are free to attack other units with relative security of not being attacked themselves. As such, they have reduced defence so as to stop them from being overpowered.

[Thorïn II Oakenshield]

Yes ; but without being at the level of heavy infantry, they should still be a little stronger. I modified that in my EDU.

[Spartan777]

Yeah I was wondering about this also. Thanks for raising it!

[Jean=A=Luc]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...6#post10742796

There's a reason for these things. Even pikemen with just 1 attack and 1 defense can be quite formidable when engaged from the front. All you have to do is protect their flanks.

[Descendent of Kings]

[QUOTE=Jean=A=Luc;10783976]http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...6#post10742796[QUOTE]


Ah just finally saw this thanks Jean! All makes a lot more sense now!

[Maiar93]

Then why every time my Guards of Osgiliath engage in melee break and run away?

[Lazy]

Then why every time my Guards of Osgiliath engage in melee break and run away?

because spear wall is a formation that is used while standing... even without you should not move!
You cannot have this while engaging an enemy... that breaks your line and all of the superiority of pikes is completly gone as in this situation you have 1 vs 1 combat only!
You must stand!

Edit: locked moral... mmmh... which unit are you talking about

[Dwarven Berserker]

If AI controls, it happens because the AI is retarded.
If Guards of Osgiliath under your control break you're doing something wrong as they have locked morale and therefore cannot rout

[Maiar93]

They're holding the impenetrable wall of spears, then suddenly one of them gets headshotted by a javelin and they all start running for their lives.

[Dwarven Berserker]

They're holding the impenetrable wall of spears, then suddenly one of them gets headshotted by a javelin and they all start running for their lives.

They can't be routing right? Or isn't that what you mean?

[Jean=A=Luc]

They're holding the impenetrable wall of spears, then suddenly one of them gets headshotted by a javelin and they all start running for their lives.

They have locked morale, they can't run. You've either modified them or you're lying. Even without being locked their morale is quite high, GoOs would be no more prone to breaking than any other high tier unit.

[Dwarven Berserker]

Thnx for repeating what I said, Jean

[Jean=A=Luc]

Thnx for repeating what I said, Jean

Thanks for being a thread derailing pain in the neck. Only the first sentence of my post overlaps with your own and the additional emphasis was warranted since Maiar continued with his claim after your "answer".

[Dwarven Berserker]

Thanks for being a thread derailing pain in the neck. Only the first sentence of my post overlaps with your own and the additional emphasis was warranted since Maiar continued with his claim after your "answer".

I believe I hinted to that he was lying enough already
But yes, your post was better explained, and I apologize for somewhat derailing the Numenor thread

[Adjudant-Major]

The strenght of those phalanx pikemen was not reduced for such a reason in Rome Total War I thaught. And it's surely there, in ancient Europe, where one should be afraid of them to be overpowered I played with them in my personal submod for 2.1 with much higher stats and I never felt any troubles with balance. They are very strong, of course. But they can be easily outmaneuvered, destroyed by javelins, arrows, ballistas, cavalry in the back, infantry in the flanks...

[Descendent of Kings]

They are very strong, of course. But they can be easily outmaneuvered, destroyed by javelins, arrows, ballistas, cavalry in the back, infantry in the flanks...

First off thanks for all the feedback guys appreciate it! Why I love this forum . And it all confirms my suspicions, just wanted an official word on it...been known to be totally wrong before lol! But like Adjudant-Major says they can easily be outmaneuvered. So shouldn't they're defense be more in line with the likes of citadel guard or even regular gondor spearmen? Particularly since they're such an elite late game unit (can't get until Osgiliath is rebuilt which is like 200+ turns in). Sure it might make them crazy powerful but wouldn't that be the point with them? Definitely not complaining, as I'm sure I could figure out how to change the stats if I really wanted to myself, just raised the topic out of curiousity .

[lolIsuck]

People in here tend to do that, there's to many of us that want to answer the questions
(all for the reps, yes my preciousssss)

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

Does downloading and installing Third Age mod wreck M2TW in any way. Does it take anything from M2TW or block it or delete its files?

[johntarmac]

Does downloading and installing Third Age mod wreck M2TW in any way. Does it take anything from M2TW or block it or delete its files?

TA has no impact on M2TW, it is in a seperate folder and changes nothing in the M2TW files.
TA doesn't even need to be uninstalled, just delete the folder and everything is gone.