United States of Europe?? :D

[IMPERATOR_5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Europe I dont want a U.S.E...
why not just Europe? capitol city... Rome? :original:
What do you think?

[Rhah]

I like the idea of a U.S.E, but it would never work. Too much nationalistic pride, and too many past transgressions between countries.
As for the Capital, the only fair way would be to move the capital every 10 years or so.

[Markas]

I like the idea of a big European power but as stated their will be much atagonism just as there is in the E.U. The biggest question is a 'Euro-army' which could be quite formidable 'cept we'd have to beef up our air transport capability to have any chance of being in the same league as America. And then there's the problem of NATO being compromised... I don't like the term 'United States of Europe', though it's just copying... I reckon something like 'The European Federation' or perhaps something less Star Trek...

[traitain]

As long as the European Union relies on America to clean up the historical residue in it's own back garden (the balkans conflict) an US of Europe will never exist. The French are up their own backsides, the British are continual suspicious of Europe and the Germans say little and do even less. The US of Europe is a ridiculous pipe-dream that'll never be realised until Europe grows some testicular glands.

[TenkiSoratoti]

As long as the European Union relies on America to clean up the crap in it's own back garden (the balkans conflict) an US of Europe will never exist. The French are up their own backsides, the British are continual suspicious of Europe and the Germans say little and do even less. The US of Europe is a ridiculous pipe-dream that'll never be realised until Europe grows some balls.

I suppose thats why countries such as Britain, The Netherlands and various other nations followed the USA into a pointless conflict with Iraq, now look whats happened...

P.S. There should be a 'in my opinion' in there somewhere because A. I think what you've written is total bollocks and B. That thread is edging on a troll believe it or not

[removeduser_487563287433]

As long as the European Union relies on America to clean up the crap in it's own back garden (the balkans conflict) an US of Europe will never exist. The French are up their own backsides, the British are continual suspicious of Europe and the Germans say little and do even less. The US of Europe is a ridiculous pipe-dream that'll never be realised until Europe grows some balls.

If there's something I have to laugh with and at it's an Americentric view of Europe.

[Manji]

If there's something I have to laugh with and at it's an Americentric view of Europe.

Agreed. It's the "i'm-you-saviour" syndrome.
I don't believe that any measure that removes a certain degree of independence from a European state is good. The european nations have survived and thrived without being "united"; many times in the past our differences have prompted us to try and achieve higher goals and in a way these differences unite us in a deeper way than any federation could.

[Last Roman]

As long as the European Union relies on America to clean up the crap in it's own back garden (the balkans conflict) an US of Europe will never exist. The French are up their own backsides, the British are continual suspicious of Europe and the Germans say little and do even less. The US of Europe is a ridiculous pipe-dream that'll never be realised until Europe grows some balls.

maybe many Europeans don't want that "dream" to be realized, ever thought of that?

Anyway, as I'm not a European, it is hard for me to answer, though what would seem to be the most likely scenario is to keep the EU as it is, and not much else.

[traitain]

maybe many Europeans don't want that "dream" to be realized, ever thought of that?

Anyway, as I'm not a European, it is hard for me to answer, though what would seem to be the most likely scenario is to keep the EU as it is, and not much else.

Troll removed-Garb., I am British myself and I don't want a USE either. Very much against it in theory and it'll be impossible to implement in reality I should think. Far too many different cultures and peoples. I voiced my opinion under the context that we took an actual US of Europe *seriously*.

Obviously the big 3 players are the UK, Germany and France. The UK is and always has been somewhat suspicious of Europe just look at the popularity of UKIP, the French are famous for their gallic awkwardness and can be fully trusted to do the opposite to everyone else and the Germans are pretty quiet, politically and militarily overall, I mean, can you name *any* famous German Chancellors off the top of your head (without googling or whatever) after the end of WW2? They never get involved, specially in the military side of things.
One of the key issues of European integration would be military integration as a whole, with all of us pooling our military forces into one European Army. But as the Balkans conflict highlighted Europe is practically powerless to oust tyrants in our own back garden, it's shameful, we impotently sat back and watched as countless muslims were butchered by the Serbian military. Tony Blair had to go President Clinton for help, not the French or the Germans. Says it all really. We have the economic clout but military-wise we're just kittens without US aid. We would need to stand up and do something about it instead of slagging off the US about it's "militarism".

[wilpuri]

Its the wet-dream of many European politicians. It will not happen. Even the EU constitution, once it gets ratified, will be a move AWAY from a federation.

[King Henry V]

As for the Capital, the only fair way would be to move the capital every 10 years or so.

What a fabolous waste of money. It's already bad enough now with the Parliament moving from Strasburg to Luxemburg every 6 months, but imagine uprooting a plethora of civil servants and departments every 10 years.
I personally despise the notion of a political union of Europe. I would be happy for it to return to being a free trade area, but the increasing centralisation of power and the superiority of EU law of national law is sickening.
I mean, what do we have in common that unites us all?

[removeduser_487563287433]

It could work, easily. If there was the need.

[Shaun]

It will never happen! Europe has to many ifferent and diverse cultures to work under the same government, not to mention that each nationality will want to be ruled by its own people, I cant see the French being happy under a German President ect.

[Markas]

It will never happen! Europe has to many ifferent and diverse cultures to work under the same government, not to mention that each nationality will want to be ruled by its own people, I cant see the French being happy under a German President ect.

Yeah that's the crux of the issue. It's pride rather than any practical considerations that hold the idea of Europe back. Speaking from a British POV I can say I would welcome a definitive referendum on the issue, and I wouldn't be bothered much what decision came out. It seems we're ruled from Brussels nowadays anyway...

[removeduser_487563287433]

But that wont work at all. It is focused on Germany, France, England and Italy because we have all the money, power and population. Wilpuri, why in the world would it be beneficial to anyone to hand over power to your reindeer encrusted frozen wasteland?

[wilpuri]

But that wont work at all. It is focused on Germany, France, England and Italy because we have all the money, power and population. Wilpuri, why in the world would it be beneficial to anyone to hand over power to your reindeer encrusted frozen wasteland?

I am not an idiot, I know why the powerful nations in the EU are powerful.

It would be beneficial to the smaller states and it would be beneficial to the EU as a whole to try to keep everyone happy. When France and Germany fail to meet requirements and go unpunished, simply for being France and Germany, doesn't look too good to us here on the sidelines. When some nations suddenly become more equal than others when it comes to EU law and regulations, that is not right. When Germany and France are pardoned on account of their strength, it sucks.

Or do you think, that it is just to ignore the smaller states in favour of the bigger ones?

EDIT: I see that the biggest problem of the EU at the present time is the lack of democracy and transparency in the decision-making process, that and the failed attempts to inform the general populace of what, why and how the EU is. People voted no for the constitution, but they didn't vote about the constitution, they voted about EU membership, about Turkey's EU membership, and not about the document itself. Why? Because they have little idea what it is.

If the EU and its members want to be democratic, they must respect the opinion of the populace. The majority in most EU countries are against Turkish membership, but this in no way reflects in the policies the EU pursues, unless its just before election time.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I am not an idiot, I know why the powerful nations in the EU are powerful.

It would be beneficial to the smaller states and it would be beneficial to the EU as a whole to try to keep everyone happy. When France and Germany fail to meet requirements and go unpunished, simply for being France and Germany, doesn't look too good to us here on the sidelines. When some nations suddenly become more equal than others when it comes to EU law and regulations, that is not right. When Germany and France are pardoned on account of their strength, it sucks.

Or do you think, that it is just to ignore the smaller states in favour of the bigger ones?

EDIT: I see that the biggest problem of the EU at the present time is the lack of democracy and transparency in the decision-making process, that and the failed attempts to inform the general populace of what, why and how the EU is. People voted no for the constitution, but they didn't vote about the constitution, they voted about EU membership, about Turkey's EU membership, and not about the document itself. Why? Because they have little idea what it is.

If the EU and its members want to be democratic, they must respect the opinion of the populace. The majority in most EU countries are against Turkish membership, but this in no way reflects in the policies the EU pursues, unless its just before election time.

It may be sophistry but might is right.

[wilpuri]

It may be sophistry but might is right.

Aha..

That one is going to bite you in the ass one day.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Aha..

That one is going to bite you in the ass one day.

Politically? Not in my lifetime.

[Mad Guitar Murphy]

IMO the only realistic integration would be into a confederation and even that won't happen in the next 3 decades. Perhaps if the far east nations become politically and militarily more powerful the EU countries will re-arm themselves and intigrate politially because they have no other choice, it will however take a very long time. Anyway, I am convinced it will not happen because of political wil but it will happen because of realistic needs and it will not be democratic, EU integration has almost never happened with the concent of the people.

A while ago I went to a symposium on the role of the EU is future military conflicts, it was quite interesting and one of the speakers was the US ambassador to the EU. Interesting was that he said that the US would never cooperate with EU forces as it would undermine the NATO and of course the US is the most powerful NATO partner. Anyway, there already are small EU forces (http://www.iss-eu.org/esdp/04-mo.pdf) but they are not that very meaningful.