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  1. #1
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    Default Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Let's look at something real quick. How much does someone who plays baseball, a common boyhood game, make on the national level?

    On average $3,000,000. You get paid, on average (some particular players far more) a $3 million salary. How much does the President of the United States get paid? $400,000. A baseball player makes millions more than the President of the US. What does a baseball player do? He plays baseball. All day, everyday. He lives, breathes, plays baseball. That's it, no other obligations. What does the President do? He has to manage a nation, constantly try to figure out solutions to problems new and old, along with so many other duties. Based on a "you get payed for what you do" system, seems like someone needs a pay cut.

    Let's look at popular reality TV show characters, I'll choose the Jersey Shore cast. They get paid $30,000 an episode. In one season they make $390,000. That's not including other sources of income. What do they do? Act like retards, cause drama on television, etc. I suppose on a funny note that's exactly what government does, but let's compare it to the worker's salary, the breath of an economy. Did you know that the average yearly salary of a steel worker is.... $48,470? So someone who helps in the production of an important resource is paid $341,530 less a year than a bunch of bratty retards.

    Doesn't this seem... wrong, to anyone else? That those who are participating directly in the production industry are getting paid so much less than people paid to do things as simple as a game? Is this possibly where our economic problems stem from, our messed up American priorities? Instead of investing into people who do things that directly help our economy, we pay people who do essentially nothing more. Do those people build anything? Do they fix anything?

    It just seems to me that if perhaps we took, I don't know, $2,000,000 out of every baseball player's salary, we'd have a whole lot to work with in our economy. Our debt may be just a little bit less. It could go into something... worthwhile.

    Or maybe I'm just mad, or possibly Communist (damn it), but I couldn't help but voice my little observation. Feel free to agree or disagree and discuss.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    I agree that the salaries of many celeberites and sportsman are ridiculously high though I don't think they are really at fault for our current problems. Though indirectly the obsession with these people who perform a service of little to no practical value (not to say they don't provide a legitimate service worth being payed) serves to ensure most people continue to fail to realize how pathetically bad our governments really are at doing their real jobs, that is serving the people.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    I agree with at least the part that celebrities and sports professionals are paid a ludicrous amount of money. In fact I think that it is outright disgusting. There's so much hero worship for actors and actresses and pop stars, and pro sports players who are in many cases terribly flawed people who are often terrible people to worship to begin with and yet we do it anyway. I wouldn't say that it's the cause of our economic woes, but I do think that it's sad that people would rather become models, or actors or whatever than become engineers, or scientists, or anything that would actually contribute to the growth of the community. It's sort of funny, almost a total reversal from times long past when actors and artists and so forth weren't thought of very highly by anyone. In a way I can sort of understand the anti-Americanism that stems from the spread of our culture, but I think it's a western trait not an American one... worshipping and paying obscene amounts of money to entertainers... yeah. That's what happens when a society gets to the apex of its development I suppose. There is a certain degree of disenchantment for my own country which I find deeply flawed in many ways. I am incredibly irritated by people's ability to no everything about pop culture and sports but at the same time be absolutely retarded about anything even remotely informational or worthwhile.

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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jin View Post
    There is a certain degree of disenchantment for my own country which I find deeply flawed in many ways. I am incredibly irritated by people's ability to no everything about pop culture and sports but at the same time be absolutely retarded about anything even remotely informational or worthwhile.
    I know the feeling. Would you believe an entire class of seniors didn't have a clue what Occupy Wall St. was? I mean support it or not, it's worth knowing wtf is going on in the world.

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    My old politics lecturer used to jokingly say the modern version of Marx's quote
    religion is the opiate of the mass's
    is 'sport is the opiate of the mass's' (he is Australian and sports made) I think the modern version is now 'Apple is the opiate of the mass's' so I don't think it's the sportmens pay packets that's the problem but the use of sport and other entertainment/infotainment to dumb down the population so that everyone turns a blind eye to corporate greed, 'oh look another bank irresponsibly lending and causing economic chaos ... that's cool I'll just plug into my ipod and use my iphone to facebook my friends about how gay justin beiber is'
    (ironically I just got a new pair of headphones that I wanted for xmas)
    Last edited by Balian76; December 24, 2011 at 09:56 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weary One View Post
    Let's look at something real quick. How much does someone who plays baseball, a common boyhood game, make on the national level?

    On average $3,000,000. You get paid, on average (some particular players far more) a $3 million salary. How much does the President of the United States get paid? $400,000. A baseball player makes millions more than the President of the US. What does a baseball player do? He plays baseball. All day, everyday. He lives, breathes, plays baseball. That's it, no other obligations. What does the President do? He has to manage a nation, constantly try to figure out solutions to problems new and old, along with so many other duties. Based on a "you get payed for what you do" system, seems like someone needs a pay cut.

    Let's look at popular reality TV show characters, I'll choose the Jersey Shore cast. They get paid $30,000 an episode. In one season they make $390,000. That's not including other sources of income. What do they do? Act like retards, cause drama on television, etc. I suppose on a funny note that's exactly what government does, but let's compare it to the worker's salary, the breath of an economy. Did you know that the average yearly salary of a steel worker is.... $48,470? So someone who helps in the production of an important resource is paid $341,530 less a year than a bunch of bratty retards.

    Doesn't this seem... wrong, to anyone else? That those who are participating directly in the production industry are getting paid so much less than people paid to do things as simple as a game? Is this possibly where our economic problems stem from, our messed up American priorities? Instead of investing into people who do things that directly help our economy, we pay people who do essentially nothing more. Do those people build anything? Do they fix anything?

    It just seems to me that if perhaps we took, I don't know, $2,000,000 out of every baseball player's salary, we'd have a whole lot to work with in our economy. Our debt may be just a little bit less. It could go into something... worthwhile.

    Or maybe I'm just mad, or possibly Communist (damn it), but I couldn't help but voice my little observation. Feel free to agree or disagree and discuss.

    Entertainment is not an area to look at controlling. Seriously think about it, a footballer earns insano cash for that? 10 years? During that time they give hundreds of thousands of fans joy, agony, pain happiness jadda jadda I so don't care. After that they do what? Work at tesco? But then they are the guy who scored/missed that one goal that did x... They can never have a normal live gain. The Reality TV cast, they get to be famous until 5 minutes after they stop being on TV. All of this is paid for by the fans and the viewers none of it is in any way necessary to survival.. let them waste money and screw strangers on TV if they hate themselves that much let them implode in public. If the footballer is that good let them give people joy as long as it lasts.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    I have thought quite a bit about this myself, and cannot really say that my opinion on the area is very firmly established, but it serms to me as if the reason for the high salaries is how lucrative the entertainment branch really is. And if people want to spend money on something that is seemingly useless (but I am not quite convinced of that, because entertainment, in its many forms, is important to our well-being and social lives), then I do not see why they should not be able to do that. It does support the economy.

    Regarding the post about how (some) people tend to know more about pop stars than, say, chemistry, I think that we are dealing with two completely different types of knowledge. The pop star is a sort of "social" knowledge that we, in almost any company, can use to communicate and hold "interesting" discussions on, whereas chemistry is practical or theoretical knowledge that can be discussed but ultimately does not hold as many possible viewpoints or opinions as whether it was the right decision for X or Y pop star to crash a party, drink and drive or share his money for charity.

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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    This is exactly why all ancient and traditional societies regard entertainers as the lower(est) caste of society. They are practically unproductive, yet they given much rewards just because they can manipulate other people's emotions and excitement.

    I advocate putting a cap on the earnings of entertainers or tax the heck out of them. Why? So that kids stop wanting to grow up becoming singers and boxers and footballer who are often inadequately educated or trained while earning much more money than their peers in other professions.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor27 View Post
    This is exactly why all ancient and traditional societies regard entertainers as the lower(est) caste of society. They are practically unproductive, yet they given much rewards just because they can manipulate other people's emotions and excitement.

    I advocate putting a cap on the earnings of entertainers or tax the heck out of them. Why? So that kids stop wanting to grow up becoming singers and boxers and footballer who are often inadequately educated or trained while earning much more money than their peers in other professions.
    What do you do for a living? Whatever it is, I consider it unimportant and we should tax the hell out of you. How dare you pursue a profession which I personally consider unimportant.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor27 View Post
    I advocate putting a cap on the earnings of entertainers or tax the heck out of them. Why? So that kids stop wanting to grow up becoming singers and boxers and footballer who are often inadequately educated or trained while earning much more money than their peers in other professions.
    The creation of ''Labor-related Castes'' is one of the first factors contributing to the dismissal/disappearance of a given society/community.

    One of the reasons modern society has managed to avoid major collapses is the technological developments derived from exchangeable labor roles, when certain people is forced into certain labor there's a lack of innovation and consequential stagnation.

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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus View Post
    The creation of ''Labor-related Castes'' is one of the first factors contributing to the dismissal/disappearance of a given society/community.

    One of the reasons modern society has managed to avoid major collapses is the technological developments derived from exchangeable labor roles, when certain people is forced into certain labor there's a lack of innovation and consequential stagnation.
    Tech innovation is perhaps one factor in squeezing incomes though neh? One of about 20 I read in an economic paper that basically said low-high income disparity is inevitable (pissed will expand on this more when sober)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Tech innovation is perhaps one factor in squeezing incomes though neh?
    Yeah, when a certain task can be fulfilled by a machine the laborer who was fulfilling that task before will either see his wage reduced, due to the less prevalent nature of labor in the ''costs of production equation'', or simply become redundant.

    One of about 20 I read in an economic paper that basically said low-high income disparity is inevitable (pissed will expand on this more when sober)
    That's true, to a certain extent and if we believe that wages are entirely determined by productivity which they are not... yes income inequality is a natural reality of a unequal society but, on the other hand, the amount of money one earns out performing a certain task is not entirely defined by the productivity equation, there's Labor Unions and of course State Intervention.

    Service oriented economies with Assistance-like Welfare tend to erupt when technological developments are not properly followed by institutional developments that maintain the large work-force, which is expelled from the factories, inside the Industry sector.

    Therefore a large share of them will end up working in service oriented jobs while the rest is either systematically underemployed or systematically on welfare.

    Hope you are no binging too much but what I'm saying, you are british after all!!
    Last edited by Claudius Gothicus; December 25, 2011 at 06:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    December 13, 2011, 9:00 AM
    We Are Not All Created Equal

    The truth about the American class system
    By Stephen Marche
    More from this author







    James Victore

    Published in the January 2012 issue, on sale soon
    There are some truths so hard to face, so ugly and so at odds with how we imagine the world should be, that nobody can accept them. Here's one: It is obvious that a class system has arrived in America — a recent study of the thirty-four countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development found that only Italy and Great Britain have less social mobility. But nobody wants to admit: If your daddy was rich, you're gonna stay rich, and if your daddy was poor, you're gonna stay poor. Every instinct in the American gut, every institution, every national symbol, runs on the idea that anybody can make it; the only limits are your own limits. Which is an amazing idea, a gift to the world — just no longer true. Culturally, and in their daily lives, Americans continue to glide through a ghostly land of opportunity they can't bear to tell themselves isn't real. It's the most dangerous lie the country tells itself.

    Hulton Archive/Getty; Oli Scarff/Getty (Cameron); Lewis Whyld/PA Wire/AP (riots)

    FIG. 1: Rather than fight for wages, women now argue about whether they want to be harassed at work: "Is the anodyne drone typing away in her silent cubicle free from risk of comment on her clothes, the terror of a joke, the unsettlement of an unwanted or even a wanted sexual advance, truly our ideal?" —Katie Roiphe, in The New York Times.

    FIG. 2: Why is this man laughing?

    FIG. 3: The 1999 Seattle protesters had job prospects. Today, the protesters are what the British call lower class. What we call lazy.





    More than anything else, class now determines Americans' fates. The old inequalities — racism, sexism, homophobia — are increasingly antiquated [fig. 1]. Women are threatening to overwhelm men in the workplace, and the utter collapse of the black lower middle class in the age of Obama — a catastrophe for the African-American community — has little to do with prejudice and everything to do with brute economics. Who wins and who loses has become simplified, purified: those who own and those who don't. Meanwhile Great Britain, the source of the class system, has returned, plain and simple, to its old aristocratic masters [fig. 2]. Reverting to type, the overlords and the underclass seem little removed from their eighteenth-century predecessors. The overlords preach shared sacrifice from their palaces and the underclass riots [fig. 3] and the middle classes quietly judge. Everybody knows where he stands.
    Not in America. In the United States, the emerging aristocracy remains staunchly convinced that it is not an aristocracy, that it's the result of hard work and talent. The permanent working poor refuse to accept that their poverty is permanent. The class system is clandestine.


    FIG. 4: If Mad Men were set today, Don Draper, the broke son of a whore, would be getting pepper-sprayed in Zuccotti Park because he couldn't pay back the $100,000 he owed NYU for his B.A. in integrated marketing.

    FIG. 5: How much you like this show depends upon whether you imagine yourself as the extremely pale, brittle, well-mannered lady in this photograph, or the boy who shovels away her horse's .

    And yet the most cherished dreams are the hardest to awaken from. The best-made shows on television now — some of the most beautifully shot, most beautifully articulated television shows ever made — capture in achingly precise detail the era that economists call the Great Compression, that shimmering, virtuous period before the 1970s when the middle class swelled so much that it came to believe it could never stop swelling — the original dangerous illusion. Pan Am is an unlikely parable of American fluidity. Being stuck in a tube in the air, serving coffee, and having your ass grabbed achieves glamour by virtue of the characters' ease of movement. Don Draper [fig. 4] is a new Gatsby — he transforms himself from penniless vet to salesclerk to partner in an ad firm. Meanwhile, in Sitcomland, Modern Family has replaced working-class heroes like Homer Simpson and Ralph Kramden with the top 1 percent, and yet everyone, including the audience, seems to accept them as representative.
    Meaningful, substantive approaches to class are going to have to come from elsewhere. This month, the second season of Downton Abbey [fig. 5] returns to PBS, and we may as well all have a look, because if we are going to have a European-style class system, we better begin to import their values. The scenery is extremely lovely. The arrangements are very cozy. British aristocrats always look like they're daring the world to line them all up against a wall and erase the entire parasitical group of them, but at Downton, at least, the ruling class is somewhat aware of the arbitrary nature of its status. The American ruling class could learn from their humility. At Downton Abbey, where everyone has a place, at least the boy who cleans the boots and knives isn't a bad person because of his job.

    Chip Somodevilla/Getty

    FIG. 6: Cain or Calvin (or total )? "My parents, they never played the victim card.... No, my dad's idea was, 'I want to work hard enough so I can buy a Cadillac--not take somebody else's.' And this is why I don't have a lot of patience for people who want to protest the success of somebody else."


    Herman Cain's [fig. 6] comment in a recent interview on the Occupy Wall Street movement, which is by no means an uncommon opinion, was this: "If you're not rich, blame yourself." The old Calvinist strain that connects prosperity to divine election runs deep. Work hard and stay late and you get to be a banker or doctor; drop out of high school or start using drugs and you'll end up at McDonald's. Even among liberals, the new trend toward behavioral economics demonstrates how poor people fare worse on tests requiring self-control, how their personal weaknesses create cycles of poverty. You don't have to be on talk radio to believe that the poor must be doing something wrong.
    The Great Outcry that has filled the country with inchoate rage is the bloody mess of this fundamental belief in the justice of American outcomes crashing headfirst into the new reality. The majority of new college grads in the United States today are either unemployed or working jobs that don't require a degree. Roughly 85 percent of them moved back home in 2011, where they sit on an average debt of $27,200. The youth unemployment rate in general is 18.1 percent. Are these all bad people? None of us — not Generation Y, not Generation X, and certainly not the Boomers — have ever faced anything like it. The Tea Partiers blame the government. The Occupiers blame the financial industry. Both are really mourning the arrival of a new social order, one not defined by opportunity but by preexisting structures of wealth. At least the ranters are mourning. Those who are not screaming or in drum circles mostly pretend that the change isn't happening.

    Joe Raedle/Getty

    FIG. 7: The last time inequality was this high in the United States was 1929. Remember what happened next? And then after that? And after that, too?


    Post-hope [fig. 7], it is hard to imagine even any temporary regression back to the days of the swelling American middle class. The forces of inequality are simply too powerful and the forces against inequality too weak. But at least we can end the hypocrisy. In ten years, the next generation will no longer have the faintest illusion that the United States is a country with equality of opportunity. The least they're entitled to is some honesty about why.

    TODAY ON THE POLITICS BLOG: The Real Meaning of the New Income-Inequality Numbers,
    by Charles P. Pierce >>




    Read more: http://www.esquire.com/features/thou...#ixzz1hdoeBMQE


    Sorry, posted in the wrong thread - it should have been in the discussion over the American Dream and the class system.
    Last edited by Condottiere 40K; December 27, 2011 at 03:31 AM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    I beieve that the reason these people earn so money comes merely from the fact that their product is sold to so many people. A bard in ancient people could cater to, at the very best, a couple of thousands of people. A modern performer can reach billions of people and along him, so can ads.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    This is ludicrous. Value is subjective. Entertainers are producing something of value to someone, otherwise they would not get paid. Material goods may be of more value to you, but the same is not true for everyone. Of course there is the issue of subsidies which the government hands out to promote culture, which I would totally abolish.
    Last edited by Enemy of the State; December 25, 2011 at 07:57 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    No; but it may be a reason why our civilization is doomed to decadence, or perhaps it's a mere symptom of what our eventual fate would have been in any case.

    It's a free market, though for the sports stars salary caps seem to come in eventually, though if you look at it in America, it seems more tussle between the player's greed and the owner's bottom line. To a certain extent the entertainment and sports stars salaries are controlled by how much income they bring to their respective franchises, whereas the business elite's seemed to be adjusted by an incestuous cabal of tightly networked old boys.

    Considering the amount of control politicians have on our lives, we may actually want to pay them and the civil servants that run our societies premium wages to keep them incentivised in ensuring our overall welfare, rather than rely on the revolving door principle in getting jobs in the industries they are supposed to be supervising.
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  17. #17
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Nope, it's not.

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weary One View Post
    Let's look at popular reality TV show characters, I'll choose the Jersey Shore cast. They get paid $30,000 an episode. In one season they make $390,000. That's not including other sources of income. What do they do? Act like retards, cause drama on television, etc. I suppose on a funny note that's exactly what government does, but let's compare it to the worker's salary, the breath of an economy. Did you know that the average yearly salary of a steel worker is.... $48,470? So someone who helps in the production of an important resource is paid $341,530 less a year than a bunch of bratty retards.

    Doesn't this seem... wrong, to anyone else? That those who are participating directly in the production industry are getting paid so much less than people paid to do things as simple as a game? Is this possibly where our economic problems stem from, our messed up American priorities? Instead of investing into people who do things that directly help our economy, we pay people who do essentially nothing more. Do those people build anything? Do they fix anything?
    Is Debord correct? Do we live in the Society of the Spectacle?

    More on Debord:

    http://www.globalautonomy.ca/global1...jsp?id=CO.0034
    Last edited by yupper; December 26, 2011 at 06:17 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    The reason why an elite athlete makes what he does is that we live in an economic system that rewards scarcity (real or perceived) over anything else. Say an elite athlete like lebron james or kobe bryant. There are literally very few people in the world that play basketball at that level, and that posess the skills these men do. Because the nba is a very lucrative business the players deserve a large cut of it, since people pay tons of money to watch them play.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is Our Entertainment Society The Reason For Our Economic Problems?

    The only thing you can do to combat the retarded amount of money celebrities get is to not participate in the hero worship, and not use their (either the celebrity's or the sponsor's) products.

    I'd like to see engineers, doctors and scientists being the ones who are hero worshiped. Perhaps then more people would aspire to be useful. Entertainment is all well and good, but it's science that makes the world go round.

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