Suggestion for Sparta

[Ano2]

First off, this mod looks excellent, I was sad when AOH died, but it seems this mod is continuing and progressing far better.

Now on topic, we all know that Sparta suffered from the problem of a small population, and a large number of helots.

Now the problem I foresee arises from RTW's recruitment. The faction preview of Sparta shows regular Spartans as well as helot hoplites and others. These troops, and others, were only called upon in times of need, when the Spartans number were not enough. However, if the city pop of Sparta gets to a point where it can no longer recruit, then the idea of helots filling up the ranks is void since no more troops can be recruited.

To get around this I suggest that the only troops able to be raised in Sparta should be Spartan hoplites (And royal guard etc) only. All other troops, such as light infantry and helots should be recruited from the mercenary pool. This way, if Sparta's population is too low to recruit troops, it will force the player to recruit helots from the merc pool, thus representing the historical accuracy I described earlier.

This idea could extend further to all cities. For example in Athens, most units were recruited from the citizen class showing that they had a well-rounded army supplied from its citizens, and therefore the need for mercs would be less. In Carthage however, the only citizens that fought were the poeni in emergencies, and the sacred band. Therefore the merc pool for these Carthage should have all the other units it used, such as Scutarii from Spain, and Libyan Spearmen. To place the emphasis on this mercenary army, poeni and sacred band should be extremely expensive, makin git more logical to recruit from the merc pool. Since the army is merc, the population of Carthage would remain high, meaning taxes would be high, meaning more money to pay for the mercs.

As you can see, the idea I am trying to get across is how recruitment from cities and the merc pool can be balanced on a per city level, in order to represent how the various cities recruited historically.

[Ano2]

74 views and not one reply, come on guys don't be shy

[spirit_of_rob]

Probably the reason no one has replied is our lead coder doesnt visit twc very often and the rest like me dont know what he has up his sleeves but thank you for the interest.

But i think its fairely safe to say we will do our best to make each faction as unique as posible. Carthage for example has an impresive roster of units as will the Persians. But as for the specifics of recruitment im afraid i dont know exactly what he has planned.

[apostate]

Probably the reason no one has replied is our lead coder doesnt visit twc very often

who do u mean, the miserable, slow, untrustworthy coder B :laughing: who doesnt share his tools and cheats in order to win in chess games

-about recruitement : city specific it will be yes
..but not exactly the way described in that thread

-about helots : even when the population in sparta was enouph, they still did follow the spartans army and took part in the battles as supporting auxiliaries and died in numbers bigger than the lacedaimonians (see thermopylai and plataia)

[Ano2]

Well basically the rule I proposed is that population of a city= citizens only. This makes it easy to decide what units should be able to be trained in a city, and what should be in the merc pool.

If you need someone to code the recruitment I'd be more than willing, and assuming your not scripting this element, it should be simple.

[Ano2]

Hate to double post twice in one thread but heres examples of what I mean:

Athens city recruitment: Athenian logades, Athenian Hoplite, Athenian Acropolis Guard, Athenian Marine Archers, Family Member Bodyguards, Athenian Elite Marines, Athenian Hoplite 2, Athenian Cavalry

Athenian Allies cities recruitment: Platean hoplite, Eretrian hoplite

Athens merc recruitment: Any auxillia troops not from Athens, i.e. Plateau archers, assuming they weren't citizens)

As you can see Athens can recruit almost all its units, demonstrating the democratic nature of giving most inhabitants citizenship, even the rowers of the fleet, and the marines.

Spartas city recruitment: Spartan "Homoioi" Hoplites, Spartan "Hippeis" Hoplites, Spartan Family Member Bodyguards.

Spartas Allies citiy recruitment: Tegean Hoplites, Lacedaimonian Perioikoi Hoplites, Ekdromeis Hoplites (Unsure about this one, no description that defines status)

Spartas merc recruitment: Neodamodeis Hoplites, Helot Mothones, Helot Javelinthrowers (or Helot Skirmishers) and Helot Slingers.

As you can see for Sparta their recruitment is very differnet. Their core infantry still comes from Sparta, and it allies, but any helots, or freed helots come from the merc pool.

Now to put all this into context imagine this:

Athens and Sparta are at war. Both sides are taking large loses. Athens city churns out a large number of citizens in all departments of combat, not just hoplites. Sparta churns out its elite hoplites, but it has a much smaller citizen class, so over time it can no longer produce troops. This means they have to recruit helots to fill the ranks, and these are taken from the merc pool.

As you can see by having non-citizens in the merc pool you can accurately represent the manpower drain on the citizen class during war. ZOR can still be incorporated for allies, and it is even easier to zor mercs, though they are avaliable to everyone (though this is realstic as an invading force would be likely to use disgruntled slaves as troops).

As for the effect on the A.I., this can all be balanced by costs.

[Ano2]

Well I spose i'll wait for more details on the recruitment, but I still support my idea!