Artifex Act

**rez** · May 12, 2006, 01:42 PM

"Then they will likely have their own forum, and very little interest in TWC beyond the fact that it hosts their mod.. i would think they are rightly not patronised. A civitate should be at least partialy active in most areas of TWC i believe"

Which is exactly why they cannot be given civitateship and are not brilliant enough for the opifex vote. Their efforts are hence rendered thankless apart from the few people who drop by to either say how good or bad the mod is looking.

Their modding is in effect a gift to the TWC and that is interest

**the Black Prince** · May 12, 2006, 01:59 PM

i don't agree with Spiff's last point here. a civitate is any member, not any member who posts in at least 4 different fora, for example, so i see no reason why modders canniot simply be rewarded with civitate status, that is, afterall, what the rank is intended for.

if they merely want a fancy banner and title, well, thats civitates for you, but it also gives them the choice of further participation if they want it, as a privilidge, which makes Civitates a better reward than Artifex, though they seem to have the same requirements...
at least one of my patrons, and a couple more members of my family never partipated in the Curia... notably, bruticus the Steadfast, who was an active member of the Cantus people (whatever they're called) before his illness

**Reidy** · May 12, 2006, 02:18 PM

No.

As tBP already said, Civitateship is the reward for outstanding members of the forum. I find it diappointing that it has become a club for CC posters and debaters only.

This is just political correctness gone WAY too far. If you think a modder deserves a better rank, patronise him/her. If they are not eligible for Civitate then wait until they are, or tough luck. It is just stupid to create more and more ranks just to satisfy everyones needs. The rank of Opifex is already in existance for members such as the ones posted earlier. If they do not qualify, they do not qualify.

If you had two applicants for the same job, would you give it to one, and say to the other: "You aren't good enough to get the job, but i'll create a new job just for you." ?

No.

:sign_alri

**Garbarsardar** · May 12, 2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Reidy

No No No No No No No

As tBP already said, Civitateship is the reward for outstanding members of the forum. I find it diappointing that it has become a club for CC posters and debaters only.

This is just political correctness gone WAY too far. If you think a modder deserves a better rank, patronise him/her. If they are not eligible for Civitate then wait until they are, or tough luck. It is just stupid to create more and more ranks just to satisfy everyones needs. The rank of Opifex is already in existance for members such as the ones posted earlier. If they do not qualify, they do not qualify.

If you had two applicants for the same job, would you give it to one, and say to the other: "You aren't good enough to get the job, but i'll create a new job just for you." ?

No.

:sign_alri

The only thing I want to say is that a Civitates in the Curia should be able to express his disagreement with proposed legislation without the electronic equivalent of screaming and without flaming the other users.
Take care
Garb.

**Halie Satanus** · May 12, 2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Reidy

As tBP already said, Civitateship is the reward for outstanding members of the forum. I find it diappointing that it has become a club for CC posters and debaters only.

Yeh me to, thats why there should be Artifex. does anyone have an argument against! this that shows a progression in the site, or is the only disagreement that it would upset people who rarely if ever visit the Tw.

**Fabolous** · May 12, 2006, 06:42 PM

We need less ranks not more. I oppose any new rank. Just as I support cutting the current ranks.

Further, becoming a civitate should be honor enough for any modder. And if you say that modders are never getting patronized, go patronize one yourself. In all my time in staff, I never saw one person who was a modder fail his vote.

**Halie Satanus** · May 12, 2006, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Fabolous

We need less ranks not more. I oppose any new rank. Just as I support cutting the current ranks.

Why? it's a game why do want to exclude others from the toy box. will you give up your rank, if someone decides that its pointless.

Further, becoming a civitate should be honor enough for any modder.

it is, but sadly most will never find that out.

And if you say that modders are never getting patronized, go patronize one yourself.

I fully intend to, and when many mods are finished, start proposing them as Opifex. it may take a while but we'll soon have more Opifex than Civs.

In all my time in staff, I never saw one person who was a modder fail his vote.

I've heard this before, and as far as i know it's true, but this bill highlites the lack of patronage of modders, its a sad fact that the majority of patrons never visit the Tw, a result of which is that few modders are being put to the vote. i still don't see a progresive reason to oppose this bill, who does it really hurt, the status of civs is unaffected, so all arguments of why isn't civitateship good enough have no grounding, there are no similarities between the two. anyone can be proposed, so there is no reason to say why only modders, nobody is excluded. your first statment makes your position clear but wheres your reason.

**Kagemusha** · May 12, 2006, 02:21 PM

Garb im just saying straight that you are saying on hidden.Can you prove me wrong?

"Sorry Kagemusha but you inserted the term "second rate modders" in this thread and and you are just recycling it. Nobody talks about this but you, as if repetitition will somehow validate your interpretation.

This is an award for members coming from the TW fora, who do not qualify, or do not qualify yet for the title of Opifex. They are not "lesser" moders just as a civitates is not a lesser patrician and we are not all "lesser Divii". This bill is supported by three modders or contributors in the TW fora at least (Archer,Asterix,Lusted). To my knowledge no modder considers an award demeaning"

So maybe we should also a second rate debaters.All i see is that you are classifying modders in couple classes,and about the modders for example Asterix and Archer are in the same team as i am and i talk frequently with Lusted on MSN.Im sorry for my grammar becouse im bit drunk.

**Garbarsardar** · May 12, 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

So maybe we should also a second rate debaters.All i see is that you are classifying modders in couple classes,and about the modders for example Asterix and Archer are in the same team as i am and i talk frequently with Lusted on MSN.Im sorry for my grammar becouse im bit drunk.

Yes, if you noticed TWC is full of classifications. But I would not call Senatorii, "second rate Divii" nor Civitates "second rate Patricians" nor Quaestors "Second rate praetors" and so on.

Sober up and we'll talk later...

Peace
Garb.

**Kagemusha** · May 12, 2006, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Garbarsardar

Yes, if you noticed TWC is full of classifications. But I would not call Senatorii, "second rate Divii" nor Civitates "second rate Patricians" nor Quaestors "Second rate praetors" and so on.

Sober up and we'll talk later...

Peace
Garb.

Ok my friend now im sober but im still against this.What else is suggested artifex then second rate Opifex?If you can tell me that it is something else,i will support this law,but can you?
And Btw Garb click the link in my sig if you want to know do i have experience of modding.I personally would rather be Patrician then Artifex.Modders already get to be civitates more easily becouse they contribute tot the community.Like i sayed before,maybe we should also start categoricing Civs that come from thema devia.

**Sétanta** · May 13, 2006, 12:11 AM

It makes no sense to have yet another rank for modders. They either deserve Opifex or they don't. Why give every single person a classification? Is 'member' not enough? Is Civiate, Moderator, Administrator not enough? Maybe they happen to mod, thats great for them. But it doesn't mean we have to make yet another rank.

**Halie Satanus** · May 13, 2006, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Mudd

It makes no sense to have yet another rank for modders. They either deserve Opifex or they don't.

What has sense to do with anything, it makes no sense that members pretend we live in a roman socitiey, but it is a fun way of enriching the site, so why shouldn't more people be allowed to join in the fun.

Why give every single person a classification? Is 'member' not enough? Is Civiate, Moderator, Administrator not enough? Maybe they happen to mod, thats great for them. But it doesn't mean we have to make yet another rank.

why should we ever have enough, why should we ever be satisfied with what we have, should we freeze the enrichment of the site, should we procrastinate until we exhaust all our resorces, again this is a progressive bill it adds to the site, is there anyone who has an argument that isn't based in "no lets keep things as they are" why are you against progresion,

And has anyone individually thanked those who put day's week's month's into creating Mods that you play and use.

On a side note it has occured to me to add to the already good intention of this rank and to make better use of the rep system, Artifex could have the privalage of giving rep, there new can of worms opened, please feel free to "Neh" say that progressive idea to.

**Kscott** · May 13, 2006, 10:07 AM

erm... We already have to many ranks, more doesn't help at all.

**Reidy** · May 13, 2006, 12:00 PM

My post earlier was a bit out of order, and i apologise for that, but adding new ranks when there is already a perfectly good rank already, does not solve anything. I suggest an ammendment to the opifex act to make the requitements more lenient if you want to honour more modders. This is just Opifex under another name, for whoever does not qualify for it.

And can someone please explain why you believe that members should contribute to all areas of TWC in order to qualify for Civ? I most certainly did not, and I doubt half the current Civs did either.

**Sétanta** · May 13, 2006, 12:33 PM

After diliberation I have decided to support this bill on one condition. Artifex do not become Civitates. Otherwise it is really a second hand Opifex bill. They should get a badge but nothing else. Not entrance to the Curia or Prothalamos, a colored name. This makes them an honored member. An honored non-civitate. That is possible yall know. They can still earn Civitateship through normal channels. Not this one though.

My thoughts...

**Reidy** · May 13, 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mudd

After diliberation I have decided to support this bill on one condition. Artifex do not become Civitates. Otherwise it is really a second hand Opifex bill. They should get a badge but nothing else. Not entrance to the Curia or Prothalamos, a colored name. This makes them an honored member. An honored non-civitate. That is possible yall know. They can still earn Civitateship through normal channels. Not this one though.

My thoughts...

This is the problem with this rank. The rank of Civitate is for this purpose exactly. As a Civ you do not have to particpate in the Curia. They can post in only one forum and still keep the rank. If what you ask is put in the bill, Artifex will be a second-rate Civitate for modders. If not, it is a second-rate Opifex for modders. Either way it is an inbetween rank that serves no purpose.

I've said it already and I will say it again. If you want to honour a member, make them a Civitate.

**Sétanta** · May 13, 2006, 12:51 PM

Well that is one reason I am hesitant to consider the bill in the first place. Make them a Civitate or make them an Opifex which is Civitate by default.