Artifex Act

[Basileos Leandros I]

I support this pronto. It's in my advantage.

[rez]

Im just saying coders dont get as much recognition as you can't usually see their work on the same level as a master skinner/modeler

[the Black Prince]

i fail to see why this bill is restricted to the TW side of things... what about the contributions made by people who post in TW, but make significant contributions in CC? are they recognised for a special rank?
and what about those people who make significant contributions but don't post in TW at all? there is far more to this site than just the TW fora, and there is no reason why this bill cannot be opened up to reward ANY member who makes a siginificant contribution that is not significant enough to be rewarded with civitate status, and is not such a high level of contribution as demanding of opifex...

geez... how many award ranks do we need??

Civitate status is a reward. it was designed as a reward for ANY member who makes a significant contribution to the site. and that most certainly includes modders, which is why many modders are indeed, civitates.
but no, civitate status isn't enough, we have to have Opifex as well, which is effectively Civitate+ or special civitate with extra shineyness.
we have the annual site awards, which recognises the achievement over the year of people in various categories including best modder, best debator, and most helpful staff member
but even those THREE rewards aren't enough, we apparently need to find yet another reward, but this time, just for those people on the TW side of site? why is this? aren't the people who post in the CC good enough?
do people who post in the CC not qualify at all?

this is one site, 1 single large community, and i see no reason why we need to further increase, or create divisions between CC and TW, especially since the large majority of our members post in both.
why should someone who is an excellent poster, who posts in TW and CC, but happens to have some really advanced profound insights in some philasophical area not be rewarded for his ability. what about the people in CC who make sigs and avatars for people, the people who run various competitions, people like Spiff who make contributions in the form of the Members Gallery. why should non of these people be rewarded because they make their contribution in another part of the site? they are as much a member of TWC as someone who posts solely in TW

[Garbarsardar]

geez... how many award ranks do we need??

Civitate status is a reward. it was designed as a reward for ANY member who makes a significant contribution to the site. and that most certainly includes modders, which is why many modders are indeed, civitates.
but no, civitate status isn't enough, we have to have Opifex as well, which is effectively Civitate+ or special civitate with extra shineyness.

So you disagree with Opifex as well. People like Lord Rahl, lt1956, Gaus Marius,SignifierOne, Vercingetorix should not have been awarded nothing?

we have the annual site awards, which recognises the achievement over the year of people in various categories including best modder, best debator, and most helpful staff member
but even those THREE rewards aren't enough, we apparently need to find yet another reward, but this time, just for those people on the TW side of site? why is this? aren't the people who post in the CC good enough?
do people who post in the CC not qualify at all?

Nice introduction by someone who is about to say:

this is one site, 1 single large community, and i see no reason why we need to further increase, or create divisions between CC and TW, especially since the large majority of our members post in both.

The Artifex will be voted by the Curia. I fail to see how an award is "creates divisions". A show of recognition and respect unites the Community in celebration Divisions come from people who are dissing those who happen not to be good debators or members of the Curia.

why should someone who is an excellent poster, who posts in TW and CC, but happens to have some really advanced profound insights in some philasophical area not be rewarded for his ability.

He is. With civitateship.

what about the people in CC who make sigs and avatars for people, the people who run various competitions, people like Spiff who make contributions in the form of the Members Gallery. why should non of these people be rewarded because they make their contribution in another part of the site? they are as much a member of TWC as someone who posts solely in TW

I see no reason of not expanding the award to them.

So while you feel we have "too much awards" and that "Opifex was not needed" one more does no harm if expanded to the areas you propose but is suddenly overkill if it is given to people coming from TW?

meh...

[PROMETHEUS ts]

What about a Guild of Artifactors? Opifex would be the Guild's main rank , while artifex the qualification rank .... every modder will be classified as artifex if meets the civitate criteria .....

could be added may be that the guild of artifactors could be serving the TWC so be restricted in its function , tought its members has to show interhelp in mod development , couln't it be the base for a all round modding project team ? Sort of a modders communion endependently by teams, statuses , affiliations , politics, houses or what the like you are part .... guild members would give resocont only to the senate ^^ .... lol I think today I am just about talking too much for too much work .... my brain is melting ....

[the Black Prince]

so make them civitates them, give them the award intended for those making achievements, particularly since this reward of civitates, unlike this one comes not only with a cool banner next to your name, but a load of other really cool privilidges that you get to use if you choose to do so... and if you don't, well, you still get the cool banner!

i also note you totally failed to address every single point in my last post

[the Black Prince]

Garb, yes, i think Opifex was unnecessary.... i don't deny that people who have been awarded made significant contributions... but wait... thats what civitateship is for!

you say my image of a CC poster gets rewarded with civitateship
so why does someone who makes contributuions in the TW section get awarded with both Civitateship and Artifex?

i'd rather see both Artifex and Opifex gone, but if you seem to see the need to have them on top of site awards and on top iof civitateship, i fail to see why they cannot be awarded to anyone who makes a contribution

simply saying that a person making a contribution in the CC can be awarded civitateship really makes my own argument for me, since so can someone in the TW... being a modder ior a TW only poster doesn't prevent you be awarded a civitate status.

The Artifex will be voted by the Curia. I fail to see how an award is "creates divisions".

by only recognising some people whio achieve, and not others. by specifically saying only certain achievements are worthy of being recognised.

A show of recognition and respect unites the Community in celebration Divisions come from people who are dissing those who happen not to be good debators or members of the Curia

Divisions also come from people who are dissing those who happen not to be good skinners or coders or members of a mod Team

it works both ways

[Garbarsardar]

i'd rather see both Artifex and Opifex gone, but if you seem to see the need to have them on top of site awards and on top iof civitateship, i fail to see why they cannot be awarded to anyone who makes a contribution

simply saying that a person making a contribution in the CC can be awarded civitateship really makes my own argument for me, since so can someone in the TW... being a modder ior a TW only poster doesn't prevent you be awarded a civitate status.

I already said I am open to this...Aden please read my posts.

[the Black Prince]

open to what? your post kinda makes no sense...

what i'm asking for is the bill to be amended so that the rank can be awarded to anyone who makes a contribution, not just someone who does it in the TW...
are you saying you are open to this? if so, go ahead and draft a new version...

if you are saying you are open to modders becoming civitates, congrats, so am i... so what... since you seem to think civitateship isn't sufficient award for them anymore, which is what i disagree on. especially as civitateship confers more than artifex does, and is equally as easy to get


EDIT fair enough, question answered...
i still fundamentally disagree with the whole idea... whats wrong with civitateship?

[Perikles]

I agree with this bill, although I don't think it should just be for modders/TW community, we have Opifex for that, open it up to the whole community.

[Garbarsardar]

Aden, jp, please read my posts please

[Spiff]

I read the latest version, it sounded exactly like it was describing the Civitate rank more than anything else. How about a simple request that patricians be more vigilant to the modding forums and patronise more from there. Seriously, more titles at this point really seems like a bad idea, especialy as the criteria are essentialy the same as for the rank of Civitate.

Civitate = Contributing to the site
Opifex = Extraordinary contributions to the site

i dont see anything that isnt covered by either of these. And i certianly dont see any reason that anyone who qualifies as Artifex would not qualify as Civitate, when in reality anyone who's going to nominate someone should simply be patronising them.

[Lusted]

The whole idea behind the Artifex rank was to reward modders who do not qualify for Optifex but have still contributed a lot. It was aimed at modders as mods are one of the main draws of the site. Also, some modders may not want civitaship, Artifex could be an award for those modders, and for other modders who are civs as well, as an extra reward for the effort they have put into the TW community, the biggest draw to the site.

[Spiff]

That isnt a justification for creating a new rank. We already have Opifex for extraordinary contributions, and civitate for the rest of the good contributors. If people dont think the potential to have either of these ranks is good enough, why create yet another rank?

If you turn down Civitate, why would you accept something which is in reality less of an honour? I dont understand the logic. The person has already shown a lack of interest in the ranks of the site if they turn down civitate

If you dont qualify for Opifex, then you still hae something to strive for, if you dont qualify for Civitate then you still have something to strive for, why should we create yet another rank which is lower than all of these? And isnt it unfair to those who are excellent debators and get no special treatment?

[Garbarsardar]

And isnt it unfair to those who are excellent debators and get no special treatment?

They get. They become Civs and get to play in the Curia.

[Spiff]

and why isnt that good enough for the modders too? Why give them in reality a lesser title that confers no benefit? Why not just keep it clean cut, allow them to be patronised and become Civitates like the rest of us. This to me is starting to sound most unfair to the modders themselves. If they want a rank, theyll want it to be worth something - ie access to the curia, the right to post in Civitate only sections. With this they get nothing but a pat on the back saying "youre pretty good, but not good enough for anything else".

People are rewarded with the Civitate rank, its gives them extra rights. Whats wrong with that?

[Lusted]

Its not a lesser rank than civitates. It is a reward for those who do contribute a lot to the community, but have not done enough to reach the rank of optifex. Would you say Webbird, or DimeBagHo, or Stuie, who have contributed such a lot to the community, should not be rewarded in some way. I know i would like to be rewarded for what i have done to the community.

[Lusted]

But how many modders who are civs actually post in the CURIA or Symposium? Not very many, only a handful. And there are lots of modders who are civs. Artifex would also say why they have the rank, because of their skill at modding. Artifex would also be an extra thing for modder civs, saying "you are a civ, but you have also done that extra bit more to get artifex, a reward for all your hard effort."

[Spiff]

I do not see why they should not be happy enough with the rank and title of Civitate. If they are doing it for the recognition through shiny titles (which is of course not why the majority of modders do what they do, i know, ive been modded many games too), theyd be better striving for the Opifex rank.

The question is still there. What group of people currently arent being catered to? None that i can see. Civitate is open to all, as it should be. I simply cannot agree that Modders deserve a special watered down version, sorry. There are too many other contributors to give them and only them this.

Also, the majority of modders to who this applies work as a team of equal members. Will they all recieve this rank? I can see this turning into a simple "modder" badge.. with no good reason. This is what the rank of Civitate exists for.

To be honest, i believe that if you do not qualify for Civitate, you should not qualify for anything else around here - and lets face it, the vast, vast majority of modders do qualify for civitate

But what about the modders who barely post at all outside of the modding community? i would be wary about patronising them as i would not see them passing the vote. Especially with the current concern over civitate quality

Then they will likely have their own forum, and very little interest in TWC beyond the fact that it hosts their mod.. i would think they are rightly not patronised. A civitate should be at least partialy active in most areas of TWC i believe

[rez]

But what about the modders who barely post at all outside of the modding community? i would be wary about patronising them as i would not see them passing the vote. Especially with the current concern over civitate quality