No pre-phalanx units?

[Rorarii]

I noticed alot of the soldiers are post hoplite/phalanx reforms. Wouldn't it be good to add 1 or 2 pre-hoplite unit types for each faction? It would only need 1 militia spearman, probably with short spear, smallish round shield or 'violin shaped' shield and little/no armour (representing the poorer citizen) and the other unit, heavy cavalry, representing the elite equestrian order.(including chariots). Elite pre-phallanx warriors would use current hoplite models.

This would allow pre-phalanx battles where the cavalry and elite warriors ruled the battlefield, then have a Phalanx Reform (coded as new building .. I've done it) and then the hoplite phalanx would rule!

[Aetius]

Yeah, I was sot of wondering where are all the light troops from the poorer ranks of society? Not all Greeks could afford such weaponry and armor.

And one more thing; I know that it is difficult to come up with different units from the Greek factions, but why are marines being used in the game for land battles? I am not sure whether they were used really that much, except for sea fights like Salamis. Even then they are just hoplites who are using less armor and just using swords instead of thier spear.

[spirit_of_rob]

things like javlins/ archers and the like are recruitable throught the zor system these are the lighter armed troops.

Our mod starts in 514 when hoplites were the main warriors for the Greeks. Indeed the focus of our mod is the Hoplite

Marines are included to give the game a bit more tactical depth rather than two lines charge best line wins. The marines are basiicaly a light infantry type in this mod.

[Rorarii]

...

Our mod starts in 514 when hoplites were the main warriors for the Greeks. Indeed the focus of our mod is the Hoplite

...

YAWN!! I can see most battles now, 2 lines of hoplites crashing into each other with little tactical variety. Some will try deeper formations, angled attacks and flank envelopes but that's about all you can do.

If you add pre-phalanx units you can start alot earlier, even post heroic age. You could even see the great spartans fall to Argos' new phalanx formation, and see older states trying to cope with this new military revolution.

Would add some nice variety.

r

[spirit_of_rob]

This is why there are other unit types in this mod marines ekdromoi hoplites non Greek factions.

The problem with what you suggest is that warfare in Greece went trhough too many changes for us to represent well. There are a set number of units and models we can use and we have to worth within the confines of this. You can blame CA for this one if you want.

If you want pre hoplite warfare then Troy will be for you and if you want post well CA has a nice alexander mod coming out you can have if you pay for it.

[Snevets]

You are wrong about marines guys, they were certainly used on land. Don't forget that almost every expedition was accompanied by a small navy for supplies, which always had to stay very near the coast, so there is no sense to an argument that marines wouldn't join in if the army was attacked and they were less than a mile away. They are a neat unit because the standard hoplite can't swim and will mainly use his spear.

Also @ Rorarii the pre-hoplite units are certainly around here and there. In the regions further to the north some of the factions have not yet adapted the phalanx, or are using a less evolved version of it. If I understand you correctly, you are hoping to see tactics of the Trojan war and the dark ages, where the spear was a throwing weapon and a man engaged with his sword. Both the Epirote and Macedonian Pre-hoplite units use this style. OR, you might be looking for light troop types like javelineers and light spearman. Both are certainly present.

As for unit variety, I mentioned this in another topic- look around, you'll see that this is far from a hoplite vs hoplite mod- it is a full recreation.

[Idomeneas]

Guys. Hegemonia is a mod about classical age warfare. And in Greek region hoplites it was. That was making the greek armies powerfull. They were the only armies that the base soldiers were superbly armoured in contrast with other cultures that only the nobles had that priviledge. Now the regions that have a closer relation with passed tactics are represented that way. Hegemonia is not a mod that aims to satisfy everybody with vivid imagination. Hegemonia tries to the point that is possible to represent a specific era with specific tactics. Im sure that many people want an accurate game about classical era. Now if anyone thinks that he is bored by history we dont make him play by force, thank god there are mods for every taste

[Gelgoog]

well i think this mod is doing an excellent job on focusing on this specific era that is to often overlooked. maybe by having lots of phalanx units, we will find unique ways of playing with them. either way im tired of everyone spending 2 minutes on hoplite warfare and spending the whole time on roman and post roman warfare ( aka books , tv shows. ect) its nice to see a mod that excludes other parts of the world, because at this point in time, especially for this region it "was the world".

[Rorarii]

Sorry guys, I was a little harse in my last comment. The game will have variety when greeks and persians lock horns, as well as rich city states (hoplites) vs poorer regions (psiloi - rock throwers, javelinman etc), and not forgetting Greeks vs Thracians.

I just wanted history to evolve while you played the game, seeing history change before your eyes. oh well ,that might happen once I get my hands on your mod ..