[Submod Idea] Diadochi Wars

[Manuel I Komnenos]

It's a bit early but I had this idea and since I have worked in the past with M2TW engine and since I know how to do mapping, add units and factions I might personally proceed with this idea when the mod is released. Everyone is free to participate as well.

Aim: Portray the Diadochi Wars that followed the Partition of Babylon. The Macedonian Empire was divided in satrapies which were given to Somatofylakes (guards) and generals of the Macedonian Army. Each of them must strengthen his holdings, amass money and try to reunite the Macedonian Empire.

Unique gameplay: Kleroi or katoikies (farmlands) buildings which will lure Macedonians to each satrapy and allow the Satrap to recruit Macedonian soldiers. Temples to the local Gods which will make the locals content and training grounds where Macedonian officers will train the locals in order to fight in the Macedonian fashion. Babylon will have a building which will generate as many as 20,000 coins each turn in order to portray the Royal Treasure which was originally stored there. Holding Babylon is a must and will give the edge to the satrap holding it. All Satraps are allied to each other in the 1st turn. Then, the alliances start breaking up and eventually the Macedonian world is in chaos.

Factions - Satrapies (units)
1)Perdiccas (regent), Alexander IV, Phillipos Arrhidaios - The Royal Holdings (Babylon, Mesopotamia), (Macedonian phalangites, Argyraspidae, Hetairoi, Babylonian archers, local militia)
2)Antipater's Macedonians - Macedonia, Greece, Epirus (Macedonian phalangites, Agrianes akontistai, Hetairoi, Thessalian cavalry, Hypaspists)
3)Antigonus' Macedonians - Greater Phrygia, Lycia, Pamphylia Satrapies, (Macedonian phalangites, Greek hoplites, local militia and mercenaries)
4)Peithon's Macedonians - Media Satrapy, (Macedonian phalangites, Nissaean cavalry, local militia)
5)Peucestas' Macedonians - Persia Satrapy, (Macedonian and Persian phalangites, Persian hypaspists, Persian archers, local militia)
6)Eumenes' Macedonians - Cappadocia Satrapy, (Cappadocian cavalry, Macedonian phalangites, Argyraspidae, local militia)
7)Leonnatus' Macedonians - Hellespontine Phrygia, (Macedonian phalangites, local militia)
8)Ptolemy's Macedonians - Egypt Satrapy, (Macedonian and Egyptian phalangites, local militia)
9)Lysimachus' Macedonians -Thrace Satrapy, (Thracian cavalry and rhomphaeophoroi, Macedonian phalangites)
10)Stasanor's Macedonians -Aria, Drangiane Satrapies, (Macedonian phalangites, Greek hoplites, Asian cavalry, local militia)
11)Philip's Macedonians - Bactria, Sogdiana Satrapies, (Greek hoplites, Bactrian cavalry, local militia)
12)Porus - Indus Satrapy, (Indian cavalry and infantry)
13)Taxiles - Punjab, (Indian cavalry and infantry)

Additional factions that will threaten the Empire: Scythia, Thrace, Epirus, Aetolia, Athens, Sparta etc.

[smoesville]

Nice idea, though personally i would quite like to see a pre Alexander submod with the Persian empire still intact, it would be great if it was set before Phillip consolidated control of Greece but after he had developed the new phalanx.

[Fabricus]

This will be a great submod!

[bizarcasm]

Great Idea! Personally though I would start with the Partition of Triparadisus [321 BC], rather than Babylon [323 BC]. The satraps and boundaries of the Babylon partition lasted only two years before being redrawn. The Triparadisus division after Perdiccas' death was much more final, setting the stage for all of the Diadochi wars that followed, and, in particular, it gives Seleucus his own faction in control of Babylon.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Great Idea! Personally though I would start with the Partition of Triparadisus [321 BC], rather than Babylon [323 BC]. The satraps and boundaries of the Babylon partition lasted only two years before being redrawn. The Triparadisus division after Perdiccas' death was much more final, setting the stage for all of the Diadochi wars that followed, and, in particular, it gives Seleucus his own faction in control of Babylon.

A good point there mate. The plus for the Babylon Partition is that there is a Royal Faction, the Kings, represented by Perdiccas which would be interesting to play while by the time of the Partition of Triparadisus, the Kings have been taken back in Macedonia and there's no presence of an ultimate authority between the satraps (the Royal Faction would act much like the Emperor in Shogun II). The plus for the Partition of Triparadisus is that Eumenes is a hugely interesting faction to play as he has been declared a traitor and has been sentenced to death by the Macedonians in Triparadisus so he is basically alone against everyone. Also, as you said we've got Seleucos who's interesting to play.

There's also the option of creating two campaigns. Anyway, the only thing that will be needed to change is to remove and add some factions and give them or take from them provinces.

[Bernardius]

That sounds great! i always loved this period of time! a lot of diversity and nice units! the gameplay you suppose sounds quite interesting, keep going, this will be awesome!

[Casual Tactician]

I totally agree there... Will the campaign map cover the same area as in EBII or will you chop some of the western areas? And are any emerging factions planned to represent the invading Celts for example? What about 'external' factions like Cyrene, Epirus, Sparta, Bithynia, Pontos, Steppe people (if they were independent and important enough at the start date 323/321 that is)? I really like the idea! +rep

[Manuel I Komnenos]

I totally agree there... Will the campaign map cover the same area as in EBII or will you chop some of the western areas? And are any emerging factions planned to represent the invading Celts for example? What about 'external' factions like Cyrene, Epirus, Sparta, Bithynia, Pontos, Steppe people (if they were independent and important enough at the start date 323/321 that is)? I really like the idea! +rep

I was thinking about the same, adding a lot of factions will of course require that other factions are removed. Western Europe and Northwestern Africa will be entirely useless anyway but maybe it would be easier to hand all provinces to barbarians than make an entirely new map. If EB II uses the same map as EB I which covers an adequate area of Western Asia, I don't think there will be a need for a new map with the exception of maybe adding a few more cities in the East.

The most important external factions were Cyrene, Scythia, Thrace, Epirus, Athens, Rhodes, Aetolia, Cappadocia (a powerful enemy of Macedon at the time of the Babylon Partition) and a few others. There are also the Galatians of Pannonia who attacked the Macedonian Kingdom but that was much later.

Feel free to suggest addition of factions, units or changes in the gameplay as well.

[Casual Tactician]

I was thinking about the same, adding a lot of factions will of course require that other factions are removed. Western Europe and Northwestern Africa will be entirely useless anyway but maybe it would be easier to hand all provinces to barbarians than make an entirely new map. If EB II uses the same map as EB I which covers an adequate area of Western Asia, I don't think there will be a need for a new map with the exception of maybe adding a few more cities in the East.

The most important external factions were Cyrene, Scythia, Thrace, Epirus, Athens, Rhodes, Aetolia, Cappadocia (a powerful enemy of Macedon at the time of the Babylon Partition) and a few others. There are also the Galatians of Pannonia who attacked the Macedonian Kingdom but that was much later.

Feel free to suggest addition of factions, units or changes in the gameplay as well.

I agree with western Europe and nw Africa being useless for this mod, as it would cost lots of time and resources to properly portray them in the 'Diadochi Wars' and they would take away the focus form the main theme (imho even if those areas were entirely rebel controlled). I wasn't suggesting to make a new map, but simply to cut off most of western Europe (and possibly even the most northern and southern areas) while leaving the scale of the EBII map unchanged. I don't know anything about modding maps, but I assume choping some edges isn't a real problem. Then you would have a smaller and easier to handle map, that focuses on the regions most important for the Diadochi wars. Like in this example (map of EB1 provinces):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That would circumvent the imo quite drastic move to have Carthage, the upcoming Roman Republic and all of western Europe and it's peoples as one big rebel controlled area (if I understand you correctly), and eventual easy prey for the real factions in the Balkan/mainland Hellas.
With a map as above you would have eastern Sicily and southern Italy with it's Greek cities in the game (as strong rebel cities with garrison script?) and don't have to deal with the ancient powerhouses as Carthage, Rome, Gauls etc. being rebels. Also there's still enough room in the nw Balkan and eastern Europe for the Celtic peoples (as possible emerging faction[s]?) that will in the early 3rd century BCE invade Greece and western Anatolia.
You could even make the Romans an emerging faction with a two or three waves of spawned full stacks in nw Greece (similar the Mongols in vanilla M2TW) round about the time of the Macedonian Wars. Actually the 'emerging Rome' idea is more a joke... I just wanted to compare the aggressively expanding Romans with the dreaded Mongols.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

I agree with western Europe and nw Africa being useless for this mod, as it would cost lots of time and resources to properly portray them in the 'Diadochi Wars' and they would take away the focus form the main theme (imho even if those areas were entirely rebel controlled). I wasn't suggesting to make a new map, but simply to cut off most of western Europe (and possibly even the most northern and southern areas) while leaving the scale of the EBII map unchanged. I don't know anything about modding maps, but I assume choping some edges isn't a real problem. Then you would have a smaller and easier to handle map, that focuses on the regions most important for the Diadochi wars. Like in this example (map of EB1 provinces):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That would circumvent the imo quite drastic move to have Carthage, the upcoming Roman Republic and all of western Europe and it's peoples as one big rebel controlled area (if I understand you correctly), and eventual easy prey for the real factions in the Balkan/mainland Hellas.
With a map as above you would have eastern Sicily and southern Italy with it's Greek cities in the game (as strong rebel cities with garrison script?) and don't have to deal with the ancient powerhouses as Carthage, Rome, Gauls etc. being rebels. Also there's still enough room in the nw Balkan and eastern Europe for the Celtic peoples (as possible emerging faction[s]?) that will in the early 3rd century BCE invade Greece and western Anatolia.
You could even make the Romans an emerging faction with a two or three waves of spawned full stacks in nw Greece (similar the Mongols in vanilla M2TW) round about the time of the Macedonian Wars. Actually the 'emerging Rome' idea is more a joke... I just wanted to compare the aggressively expanding Romans with the dreaded Mongols.

I get what you mean. Yeah, you can take the original map and chop the Western part. There are basically as many as 10 files which constitute the map, one is for rivers, another for mountains, another for regions etc, so with careful coordination they can be chopped evenly.

The Romans may be included as Alexander of Epirus was actually fighting wars against Italian tribes as early as when Alexander of Macedon was campaigning in the East.So, it would be the Balkans, Western Asia and Italy.

I think this is a great idea! I would personally favour starting 301 BC either just before or just after Ipsos- that way there is some sort of stability in the factions.
Is there not the possibility of a sub mod for RTW Alex? ...to tide us over till EBII is complete

You'd have some powerhouses in an after 301 BC mod but at the same time you'd miss the satisfaction of starting the game with a small satrapy and ending having reunited Alexander's Empire. It's easier to make though as we'd have fewer factions to begin with.

As for RTW Alexander, I've never really worked with RTW. I just know mapping and adding factions in M2TW Kingdoms.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

As for RTW Alexander, I've never really worked with RTW. I just know mapping and adding factions in M2TW Kingdoms.

Thats a shame, EBII could be some time yet

[samba_liten]

You'd have some powerhouses in an after 301 BC mod but at the same time you'd miss the satisfaction of starting the game with a small satrapy and ending having reunited Alexander's Empire. It's easier to make though as we'd have fewer factions to begin with.

I'm all in favour of the submod. Great idea!

I'd also like to chime in in favour of starting the campaign earlier. Lots of mods start after Ipsos, but i've yet to find one that starts before!

Wouldn't it be nice to have Antigonos and the rest of them?

I'd imagine it as one of the Kingdoms campaigns. Focused just on the wars of the Successors.

[Fabricus]

Actually the 'emerging Rome' idea is more a joke... I just wanted to compare the aggressively expanding Romans with the dreaded Mongols.

It would be best to totally leave Romans, Carthaginians, etc. out entirely, allowing for more units for the factions in focuse. Unless of course Italy is going to be included and Epirus and Syracuse are going to be actual factions(?)

Edt. I originally thought this map was going to end at Hellas, now I see its not for sure yet.

[Casual Tactician]

It would be best to totally leave Romans, Carthaginians, etc. out entirely, allowing for more units for the factions in focuse. Unless of course Italy is going to be included and Epirus and Syracuse are going to be actual factions(?)

Edt. I originally thought this map was going to end at Hellas, now I see its not for sure yet.

I'm not sure why you quoted me and why just that part of my post, as it's base line is very similar to your suggestion.

Anyhow, I agree that it's more favourable to leave the entire west including the Romans (as a non-emerging faction) and Carthaginians out of the mod. Having Syracuse as real faction without it's biggest adversary (Carthage) doesn't seem right somehow, but Epirus ought to be in (the last seems fixed already anyway, if I get the last line of the OP right).

I'm actually starting to like the idea of having Rome jump into the medium/late game as non-playable, emerging faction around the time of the Macedonian wars. It could happen in successive waves with sharply increasing amounts of (free-upkeep/'horde'?) armies. The last wave could be so powerfull and overwhelming, that the SPQR more or less automatically conquer Macedonia and most of central Greece, if those areas are controlled by other AI factions. After their conquest of (most of) Greece they could also get somekind of scripted boost for the time being, to turn them into a real threat for the remaining Diadochi factions.
I guess AI-Romans could really spices up the medium/late game, and after all they were the nemesis of the Diadochi kingdoms. They should also be easy to implemtent, as you can probably simply copy and paste them from vanilla EBII, since they wouldn't step into the 'Diadochi Wars' until after EBII's start date.

[tomySVK]

Great Idea! +rep

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

I think this is a great idea! I would personally favour starting 301 BC either just before or just after Ipsos- that way there is some sort of stability in the factions.
Is there not the possibility of a sub mod for RTW Alex? ...to tide us over till EBII is complete

[The excited one]

excellent idea eager for this but even more eager for EBII coming

[Visarion]

nice! very nice even but I would like to see/to see if EBII will be released first! I'm a little mean I know... I know it will be released but the ardent question is whennnnnnnnn?

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

All the more reason to make a RTWAlex sub-mod

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

281 makes sense as a end date, but still need to discuss start date.....I still think just before Ipsos- a bit like RSII and RTR set you up with initial historical battle, fight that and change history. Perhaps key players start with their armies at Ipsos if you loose too many men- you will loose territory fast!