Pacifist and Apathetic

[LiciniusII]

A simple question posed to you all: Are pacifists apathetic?

My argument: I believe that to be true. They do not stand up for any of their beliefs, let others push them around letting thier advasaries run over them without resistsnace, and in times of percecution they'd just sit back and say "hey this isn't my problem and since I'm a pacifist its not like I'm going to do anything anyways even if it were my problem.

forgive the melodramatic arugment


Discuss!

[SoggyFrog]

Pacifists might be apathetic to the war-related concerns of non-pacifists, but even that is not necessarily so. The difference in priority should not be interpreted as apathy.

Real pacifists will stand for their beliefs in non-violence, won't let themselves get pushed around, and won't dodge problems.

Tell me that this man is apathetic to the troubles of his nation: Mohandas Gandhi

[MaximiIian]

Not necessarilly. A pacifist is someone who doesn't want war. A pacifist can fight to defend what they believe in and to defend themselves.
If they want and desire peace, they thus have some sort of empathy for all or most humans, and thus are not apathetic.

[LiciniusII]

mmmm, points taken. :original:

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

There was an excellent movie a while back about two missionaries in the jungles of South America, one of them played by Robert De Niro.

Anyways, they were in charge of a missionary converting natives, but the Portuguese I believe wanted their territory, so they attacked the mission. Well, point is, one missionary chose to defend the mission using force, and the other missionary decided that force was something he personally could not resort to.

In the end, De Niro died fighting, but the interesting (and pertinent for those of you waiting to find out why I even mention this) thing about the pacifist missionary was that he didnt let those who chose non-violence die like sheep. In the end, you see him leading a procession out of the mission with the Cricifix in front, being shot at by the Portuguese.

A good example of how even those who have submitted to death by choice can take it with courage and conviction.

[Mr.Flint]

There was an excellent movie a while back about two missionaries in the jungles of South America, one of them played by Robert De Niro.

Anyways, they were in charge of a missionary converting natives, but the Portuguese I believe wanted their territory, so they attacked the mission. Well, point is, one missionary chose to defend the mission using force, and the other missionary decided that force was something he personally could not resort to.

In the end, De Niro died fighting, but the interesting (and pertinent for those of you waiting to find out why I even mention this) thing about the pacifist missionary was that he didnt let those who chose non-violence die like sheep. In the end, you see him leading a procession out of the mission with the Cricifix in front, being shot at by the Portuguese.

A good example of how even those who have submitted to death by choice can take it with courage and conviction.

:laughing: That movie was on TV today! (since i wasnt listenning i kept wodering why those portuguese dressed up in french uniform?)

[Keresztes]

I have nothing against pacifists. If they choose that kind of lifestyle, and then follow through with it, all the more power to them.

Personally I could never be a pacifist. If there were people trying to do me harm, I'd much rather go down fighting and take as many of them with me as possible. If they want my life, they'll damn well have to work for it.

[Rhah]

I Consider myself a relative pacifist. I wont fight for someone else's ideal's, and i will try to make fighting the last resort, but if anyone threatened anyone i care about, then the pacifism would quickly be discarded.

I'm not a Christian, but wasn't Jesus pretty much a pacifist? (except when he went a bit crazy in that temple) Not many people would consider Jesus to be apathetic. Gandhi (as stated above) is another great example of this.

Doesnt this belong in the religion/morals section?

[IamthePope]

I'm not a Christian, but wasn't Jesus pretty much a pacifist? (except when he went a bit crazy in that temple) Not many people would consider Jesus to be apathetic

Jesus was a pacifist, but with the intent of setting an example and conveying a message. Jesus lived the way he did to show people how live a just life, not how to rule a just Kingdom. In order to govern, a king must often forsake pacifism in order to ensure the prosperity of his realm.

I find Pacifism as it applies to foreign policy a dangerous concept, and inherently irresponsible for a large nation like the United States to embrace. When there are threats to the proseperity of the world, those threats must be proactively confronted with force if necessary. Some nations like Switzerland, Germany, and Japan are in an admirable position to embrace pacifism. I would say this is an appeasement a nation's collective concience. These nations embrace pacifism so as to avoid the potential loss of blood and treasure that is apart of every war. In this light, pacifism seems dangerously selfish and irresponsible when there are threats to world peace that need confronting.

Pacifism, as it applies to the policy of a nation, is apathetic and irresponsible in our global society.

[Saint-Germain]

Moved to the 'Pit

[Isnogood]

They do not stand up for any of their beliefs, let others push them around letting thier advasaries run over them without resistsnace, and in times of percecution they'd just sit back and say "hey this isn't my problem and since I'm a pacifist its not like I'm going to do anything anyways even if it were my problem.

I disagree.

Pacifism should be interpreted as standing up very firmly for your beliefs while not resorting to violence,even if threatened with or suffering the latter.A true pacifist shouldn't shy away from defending his ideals, rather put himself in harm's way to do so.

Real pacifists are to be truly admired, too bad the term has seen "somewhat" (<<<euphemism alert<<<) of an inflation as there is much selective/political pacifism, when sometimes people decide that it's en vogue and fashionable to call themselves pacifists and then take sides in political conflicts,trying to claim moral high ground.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Simple retort: consciencous objectors in World War I were sentanced to heavy hard labour for standing up for their pacifist beliefs.

[Erik]

The Netherlands was pretty much pacifist during WWI.
We stayed neurtal and didn't send young boys to die in a useless war. (what was it about again? the murder of a prince?).
If more people were pacifists I'm sure WWI would never have happened, the only reason it did happen was because so many countries were building up their military until they felt they just had to use it.

Pacifists are just people who don't beleive that violence is the best way to solve anything, they try to solve things in different ways instead.

I'm not a pacifist, but I do think politicians resort to violence too quickly.

[Last Roman]

My argument: I believe that to be true. They do not stand up for any of their beliefs, let others push them around letting thier advasaries run over them without resistsnace, and in times of percecution they'd just sit back and say "hey this isn't my problem and since I'm a pacifist its not like I'm going to do anything anyways even if it were my problem.

their beliefs is that violence is not the answer

every heard of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr? How 'bout Ghandhi? I'd say they got some stuff done and didn't let their opponents push them around

[Hub'ite]

We make war that we may live in peace. -Aristotle

[Elu Barcino]

We make war that we may live in peace. -Aristotle

But does that mean that we live always in war? Or will there come a point where war is no longer necessary? If so, who will decide that, and will will it happen?

That statement leaves too much unanswered.

[Erik]

We make war that we may live in peace. -Aristotle

Ah yes, Aristotle: one of the last people to experience war before his country became eternally peacefull

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

We make war that we may live in peace. -Aristotle

Aha! Time for dueling quotes!

"To suggest that war can prevent war is a base play on words and a despicable form of warmongering." -Ralph Bunche, Nobel Peace Prize recipient, 1950

Have at thee!

[hsimoorb]

Well, I'll have to go look up my quote then, I've got a good one that eludes me. I think it was Tolstoy talking about the stalinist purges. He basicaly said that it would have been impossible for Stalin to do if all the police were afraid of violence from the people they were persecuting. I'll look up the wording...

EDIT-alright, it's getting to be midnight and now I'm not so sure it was Tolstoy I'm thinking about. Considering I've never read a Tolstoy book, that would make sense. I heard the quote somewhere, I guess that dosen't matter realy does it?

[Hub'ite]

Aha! Time for dueling quotes!

"To suggest that war can prevent war is a base play on words and a despicable form of warmongering." -Ralph Bunche, Nobel Peace Prize recipient, 1950

Have at thee!

The gloves are off. :laughing:
Everyone's a pacifist between wars. It's like being a vegetarian between meals. ~Colman McCarthy