Say goodbye to your favorite egyptian statues

[Mr.Flint]

A religious ruling condemning the display of statues has angered Egyptian liberals and intellectuals who fear it could encourage religious zealots to attack the country's pharaonic heritage.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4751319.stm

[Fenris]

The already ridiculous proportions of islamism integrism are shattering records...

[Ahiga]

No more different than reading that Texas may or may not require you to acknolege that there is a supreme being if you wish to hold office, or you may be turned down. Was a wiki article, so I have yet to find a more reliable source, though I would not think it to be made out of thin air. Fundementalist stupidity is rife on either side. The Islamic Integration could be limited to theirs, though. I don't know of any fundementalist christian's who say for us to black out the roman and greek and germanic/celtic history of our nations.

Very stupid anyway. If anything, Iran and Egypt should be fiercly proud of their ancestry before islam. Islamic Persia was pretty much a pussycat to the west until the recent 2005-2006. Zoraostor persia struck fear in Rome and greece!

[Aristophanes]

No more different than reading that Texas may or may not require you to acknolege that there is a supreme being if you wish to hold office, or you may be turned down. Was a wiki article, so I have yet to find a more reliable source, though I would not think it to be made out of thin air. Fundementalist stupidity is rife on either side. The Islamic Integration could be limited to theirs, though. I don't know of any fundementalist christian's who say for us to black out the roman and greek and germanic/celtic history of our nations.

Very stupid anyway. If anything, Iran and Egypt should be fiercly proud of their ancestry before islam. Islamic Persia was pretty much a pussycat to the west until the recent 2005-2006. Zoraostor persia struck fear in Rome and greece!

PURE equivocation.

[Ahiga]

PURE equivocation.

Well I couldn't have expected anything but another attack from you. Why am I trying to decieve, Aristophanes?

I love pre-Islamic Persian culture and history. I am bored of egypt's, but it certainly has respect for it.

And yes, I feel it's not too dramatically different than states which still seem to reinforce a practice that you must acknolege a god as existing to hold office. I remarked on such because I wanted to remind people that we have our own brand of fundementalism in the states, to try and humble us a little before going off on the traditional rampage of breathing flames and roaring about how Islam is built upon a throne of lies and intolerance and that we are a pristine little peach in the modern era. We are civilized above the dark ages which engulf the region. If we had such a dark age as they suffer, for reasons beyond religion, then our own would naturally fall into the muck and mire of it. Such stress can prove a breeding ground for such thinking, regardless of religion or dogma. I reserve criticism for the religion because I realize just how easy we would fall in their own tracks if we did not have the blessings of the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, and other such events or experiences.


And like I asserted before, the most of my knowledge and love of the middle east stem's from pre-islamic study. The only figure I really enjoy post-Muhammad is Saladin. Beyond him, I have an interest in the turks and other muslim's, but it does not exceed my respect to the glory of Old persia or egypt. I remark that unlike they, our christian officials do not try and put a black mark on our pagan ancestry, and accept the glory of rome, greece, and other such cultures. The classical-return in the reinassance did so (Embrace the past and not try to ignore it or downplay it)

You will continue to see me comment of a negative quality of religion in the west in every post that deals with Islam, in the vain hope of convincing some of you stoic-fellows that we are not perfect and that fanaticisim can come to religion, nation or cause through desperation and specific cirumstances (Pre-communist revolution, Great Depression of Germany leading to Nazi-ism's rise, I presume serbian genocide of bosnian muslim's had a similiar circumstance which gave rise to it)

[Eric]

Well, the Islamic East was not pushover militarily, the Christians went on Crusade 5 times and only succeed once. Don't be stereotyping them. But yes, the East should be proud of their pre-Islam heritage, the sculptures of Egypt are a national, no a world treasure. They represent a time gone by, they represent the last remnants of the base of Western Civilization. Egypt and the surrounding areas of the Middle East are the Cradle of Western Civilization, they should be proud of that. In Canada we take pride and interest in Native culture, art and history, even though the vast majority of Canada is Christian and the Natives were, well they didn't have an organized religion, i'll just call it animalism.

[Ahiga]

Well, the Islamic East was not pushover militarily, the Christians went on Crusade 5 times and only succeed once. Don't be stereotyping them. But yes, the East should be proud of their pre-Islam heritage, the sculptures of Egypt are a national, no a world treasure. They represent a time gone by, they represent the last remnants of the base of Western Civilization. Egypt and the surrounding areas of the Middle East are the Cradle of Western Civilization, they should be proud of that. In Canada we take pride and interest in Native culture, art and history, even though the vast majority of Canada is Christian and the Natives were, well they didn't have an organized religion, i'll just call it animalism.

Wow, I'm attacked on both fronts. For first supporting the muslim's then for stereotyping them.

Persia was not part of the land's conquered by the crusaders, and it is true that I forgot the mongol's devasated their country and may have limited their power in any politics to come until the 20th century. I agree with the rest of your comments, of course.

[Mr.Flint]

Wow, I'm attacked on both fronts. For first supporting the muslim's then for stereotyping them.

Persia was not part of the land's conquered by the crusaders, and it is true that I forgot the mongol's devasated their country and may have limited their power in any politics to come until the 20th century. I agree with the rest of your comments, of course.

Add a third front :laughing:
You shouldnt discard Islamic Persia as well, since theyve left a significient mark in history, science and culture.
Persia under the Savafid dynasty was a major political and cultural power in the region, a danger to the Ottomans...
Under the Qajar dynasty it even dared to go to war with the Russian Empire.

[Ahiga]

Add a third front :laughing:
You shouldnt discard Islamic Persia as well, since theyve left a significient mark in history, science and culture.
Persia under the Savafid dynasty was a major political and cultural power in the region, a danger to the Ottomans...
Under the Qajar dynasty it even dared to go to war with the Russian Empire.

Hah! Hitler can perform fellatio-Garb.. I'm far more the insane one, with a three front war.

I would assume that it is true that they remained far more than what I gave them credit for, but that it was only in their pre-islamic times and modern years in which they have actively been a 'foe' of the west, excluding Russia and perhaps Imperialism of any european powers in the region (I believe Britain and russia fought over afganistan in the 19th century). Perhaps it is that to us westerners, the same way that greece was most notable for it's achievements in the ancient hellenistic age, Persia was only important or notable for it's achievements in the achameneid times (We seem to skip over sassanid era in history class, at least for grade, middle, and highschool).

The fact is, that whole region has been invaluable to development in the east and west. Our problem with fanaiticism today should not make us think they are destined to be this way for eternity.


Dzoavits: Good point being made. I would wonder if it could convince those who take to have a crusade on Islam here, that this is a clear and cut case (of many) of the religion being shaped to the wishes of others.

[Nihil]

Hah! Hitler can perform fellatio-Garb..

Sorry for being off-topic, but didn't I tell you that it was going to be fun having Garb as a mod? :laughing:

Christianity also has rules against idolatry, which fortunately are ignored by all sane people who know that statues can't hurt you.

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[Carach]

thats point no.999946836836 for me vs islam - 1

[Richard the Lionheart]

thats point no.999946836836 for me vs islam - 1

It has nothing to do with Islam really. It's just based upon the ruling and opinion of one individual.

To say that the actions of one government official represent the religion as a whole is meaningless.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Thread title is sensasionalist. It is only a condemnation by a muslim religious leader, which I disapprove of, but I doubt the Pope would praise such imagery in a religious context either. Carach, do you intend to actually put forward an opinion or are you simply an opportunist seeking anything you can put forward in your odd, personal battle with Islam?

[Carach]

Thread title is sensasionalist. It is only a condemnation by a muslim religious leader, which I disapprove of, but I doubt the Pope would praise such imagery in a religious context either. Carach, do you intend to actually put forward an opinion or are you simply an opportunist seeking anything you can put forward in your odd, personal battle with Islam?

my view is clear - hence why i said the above.
aka - islam is intolerable and in serious need of an update if it doesnt want to destroy itself

It has nothing to do with Islam really. It's just based upon the ruling and opinion of one individual.

in islam the religious leaders have a massive following - only the pope has that kind of following in the west (religion-wise).

the pope doesnt go around threatening people, ordering the killings of people and so forth these days does he? i may be wrong?

[Erik]

If ancient Egyptian sculptures are so offensive to Islam, why didn't Mohammed destroy them?

[Richard the Lionheart]

If ancient Egyptian sculptures are so offensive to Islam, why didn't Mohammed destroy them?

I think this is just one of those temporary things. I'm sure the decision will be over-ruled or reversed sooner or later.

[Erik]

I think this is just one of those temporary things. I'm sure the decision will be over-ruled or reversed sooner or later.

Yes of course, I know that.
Egypt relies on tourism a lot, they would never remove/destroy ancient Egyptian figures.

[Shaun]

Well hopefully, to destry ancient Egyptian Scultures would cause a world out cry, at least i have seen the pyrimads and he sphinx.

[Isnogood]

First of all I can't see where the Fatwa is calling for the destruction of the statues, so cool down. Egypt is very much depending on tourism and normally, religious influence stops where money is concerned.Also a fatwa in sunni islam is in no way binding, but more of an advice.

The real problem is, as the article points out, the rising influence of the (illegal) islamistic "Muslim Brotherhood"-movement.The problem again is not so much religion itself.A friend of mine got sick in Egypt once and although he is definitely no friend of islamism, he rather went to one of their hospitals than one run by the government.In the facility run by the islamists, so he claimed, they cared for sterile instruments, had the better medical treatment and qualified personal and didn't try to rip him off every 5 minutes.He said,when turning to the officials in Egypt you wouldn't get anything done without some proper 'bakshish'.Maybe one should re-evaluate the cause of the success of these movements.