TotW Commentary Thread.

[Radzeer]

RE: TotW 124



The posted rules for this week's contest don't seem to include directions regarding bolding the keywords.

I fixed that. Thanks for catching it (again ).

As for the keywords, I can tell you that bold makes a big difference. The moderator's rule is simply check the presence of the keywords and the word count. I just copy/pasted all submissions to word which gave out the post count immediately. Obviously searching for keywords is not difficult and does not take forever, but why not make it even easier for everybody by bolding them on submission?

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Obviously searching for keywords is not difficult and does not take forever, but why not make it even easier for everybody by bolding them on submission?

Don't think of the bolded words as an distraction from your presentations for it is not. That guidline applies to everyone, "What's good for the Geese is good for the Gander." Think of the 5 keywords as not a hinderance but a universal challange to you writer's to see who can bend and sway a thesaurus and dictionary with the most skill. For those of us whose native tongue is not English it is "Good Training" as my old drill sargeant used to say.........

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Complaints which cant be discussed here should be send by PM to me.

[The Norseman]

when will the results be revealed? I thought it was each Sunday or is it Monday?

[Asterix]

when will the results be revealed? I thought it was each Sunday or is it Monday?

At the top of the poll it tells you when results will be revealed: 9:45 PM (at least on the Eastern seaboard)

[Robin de Bodemloze]

Yup. The poll closes by itself after which the winners will be announced and the next poll put up.

[Nazgûl Killer]

About what I wanted to say...

I urge my fellow writers to think outside the box. I read #123s submissions, and I was simply agitated. All of them spoke of Napoleon, Paris, and Moscow. And combos of the three. All of them aside for 3 or 4. I was simply astonished, honestly! I come here day in and day out and enjoy reading pieces that generally think outside the box, are generally high quality and or show quite a bit of potential... But #123 was simply the peak of generic writing that I've seen recently, and I plead to all of my fellow TotW competitors and writers: Think outside the box!
If you're provided with a picture of Napoleon, you must know that at least 5 people will write about Napoleon... Think of what will make you different from those 5! I mean, every single submission that was written about Napoleon I could, and I managed to, guess exactly how it would end and I was simply disappointed by each and every one of them.

The objective of competitive writing is to win, and gain an edge over others - Creativity is the best edge you can possess... Yet I've seen almost none of that in #123's submissions. I don't care about Napoleon, I don't care about his battles. I care about things beyond that! Captivate the reader, get him to cry for the death of your character, rejoice for its victories... Heck, make the reader get sexually aroused when he or she reads your descriptions for all I care! No reader wants to read historical facts, at least not when it comes to these kind of tales. We want something that will make us think, keep us on the edge of our seats, something unique and not generic.

I hope my words... Who, to be frank, came from quite a bit of anger... Managed to influence you. Because, honestly, (Just ask Dark Storm) I was immensely disappointed and angered by these submissions. I held my fellow writers here to a much higher standard... I mean, for the love of God, nine submissions about exactly the same thing!?

To be honest, I didn't vote for Dark Storm's winning tale and by the time I had wanted to change my vote, it was too late. I was too agitated at the time to tell him that (Sorry about that, Darkie), but the reason I didn't vote for him was simply to prove my point. Thinking outside the box will make you become a great writer, while you might just be a good writer. And I don't think we have bad writers here, not at all...

So; To sum up my rant? Think outside the box! If you know person A is going to write about something (And you can figure it out by simple logic), then don't write about it also! Write about something else!

Now, of course there are exceptions... When inspiration strikes, it does strike and the topic is not of your choosing, rather it is your muse's choosing... But the problem is that most of these submissions appeared to be written without heart. Without emotion, without commitment, and without inspiration. They simply appeared to be written to get the job done.

I know you all know... But I take my writing very seriously, it's one of my true passions in life, and I hold #123 as one of the biggest insults to writing I've seen. I'm sorry if I insulted or offended someone with this post, but the truth often hurts, and by all that is dear to me, someone had to say this.

[Magicman2051]

I find the whole thought of basing anything I do on a picture provided by someone else, unless the object is to create something based on that picture, to be downright disturbing and no small bit condescending.

Also, I can't be the only person to whom the spelling/grammar issues in the OP are... less than encouraging.

[Nazgûl Killer]

But that's the beauty of the competition. No one's telling you to base, or not to base your tale on the picture. Irregardless, I'm not telling you not to incorporate your tale on said picture, but to write about Napoleon when you know everyone is going to write about Napoleon? Thinking outside the box never hurt anyone.

[Magicman2051]

Which I agree with and support Nazgul, I just don't think that anything is served by including a picture unless the intent is for that picture to directly influence your writing. I gave this a whirl last year and largely stopped because of the fact that it was extremely stagnated and the same rough kind of story was being told again and again by different people with very little in the way of actual original thought, just lots of regurgitation.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Exactly what happened in #123. Which is why I think it's important to have such pictures, yet not force the writers to write about them... Often my inspiration comes from the picture (Or the quote), and it doesn't always have anything to do directly with the picture.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Nazgûl...

I acknoweldge and respect everything you've said over the past few posts but please remember that many of us have tunnel vision when we write.

The idea and the inspiration materializes/appears and if you don't act on it quickly it fades. Thinking/considering things outside of the story itself many times is beyond our grasp...

Example: Hmmm... this storyboard has xx number of entries, I better endeaver to be different. Now how will I go about that.....and so forth.

To many of us just knocking out the story and tightening it up here and there is frankly about all we can muster. The bueaty of writing is to be able to express ourselves and get a little bit better each time we write. That's just my spin on it though... .


Long story short: Your right about some of the stroyboards looking like Joe & Shemp playing follow the leader, but sometimes that focussed inspiration is all we have. Thinking about anyones else's writing or what the current group dynamic is is just a little bit out of reach sometimes...

[Nazgûl Killer]

I don't think that thinking outside of the box is something you have, it's something you learn. And quite honestly, I learned it here. Basically what I'm saying is that the level of writing I've seen here in TotW was relatively high the past few weeks, and that's why #123 simply got me that worked up... I mean, the amount of talent we have here isn't something to ignore, not the least bit - And #123 simply didn't do it justice. Not even close. It insulted the talent we have here as far as I'm concerned.

[Radzeer]

Deja vu... The danger here is being blinded by our own talent so much that we can't see the context very well.

The way I see it, the purpose of the TotW is twofold.

1. Engage the veteran writers. These people do not need pictures, quotes, whatnot, and could easily accommodate the keywords. If you are a veteran, you can obviously think outside the box already. You are not limited by anything - maybe except the title of the storyboard. The keywords are an extra challenge as we have discussed this a couple of times already.

2. Provide a training ground for upcoming writers. These guys may need some prompts to bring out the story. This is how you learn to write. Of course the picture can be influencing, but again, it is not necessarily a constraint. Also, this is where old themes (that others may see as overkilled) could help. Creativity is only a part of the writing skills, discipline, structure, technique etc count too. So it is possible that one may improve by working on the basics while at the same time having the comfort of a familiar theme.

It may be just me, but while I have a great time reading well-crafted stories, I also enjoy seeing less experienced writers trying out their talents just as much.

In the new form, TotW has a versatility to serve both veteran and less veteran writers. Personally, I like stories outside of the box too. (For example, see this TotW storyboard. The winning tale was very mainstream, while the second place was a different interpretation of the theme.) But that is a process which takes time to emerge, and veteran writers should help the beginners by constructive criticism.

@ Magicman: Too bad you weren't around when the rules were discussed... Also, cheap shots on grammar etc on an international forum are condescending and that is something which will not be tolerated here. To err is human and there are appropriate ways to address this.

[Magicman2051]

This isn't an issue of "veteran" versus "amateur" or otherwise, to address it in those terms is an oversimplification that just pigeonholes everyone in set groups and doesn't really succeed in reaching anyone.

None of what I said was intended to be a cheap shot, it comes down to a matter of presentation and nothing else. If I were posting on a French language forum and I made an error you can be damn sure I'd rather someone point it out to me and allow me to rectify it than continue to make the same mistake. I'm reasonably certain that the errors which are/were there could be easily and efficiently addressed by any member of the ToTW staff, and I wouldn't want to insult their intelligence by spoonfeeding them anything.

[Nazgûl Killer]

I don't think it has much to do with being an 'amateur' writer or not, but even if it does: That was the essence and purpose of my post. Not to rant, but rather to try and teach as I have been taught before. It's just a piece of advice coming from my mouth toward the other writers here in TotW... And, well, if you're a so-called 'amateur' writer, then you've chosen possibly one of the best places to learn here.

[Boustrophedon]

Also, cheap shots on grammar etc on an international forum are condescending and that is something which will not be tolerated here. To err is human and there are appropriate ways to address this.

I have to agree here. If I see stuff like this again I'll have to take it up with Hesus or Radzeer. I find it very important that we welcome new writers and members to TotW and ridiculing grammar is not the way to achieve this. Any writer will welcome criticism on spelling if you take the effort of correcting the mistakes but complaining about it without doing anything to help is no better than backtalk.

I'm reasonably certain that the errors which are/were there could be easily and efficiently addressed by any member of the ToTW staff, and I wouldn't want to insult their intelligence by spoonfeeding them anything.

I'm on the TotW staff and English is my third language so I'm certain I will make mistakes. If you happen to spot any in official messages (storyboards, victory threads etc) then send me a pm and I'll correct it asap. If it bothers you that much then send us a pm...

That being said: I thought we were going to see how things go for the first 4-6 weeks before possibly revising the rules?

[Derpy Hooves]

I think I might try my hand on this one. Just one question, can it be fantasy while following the rules in the OP

[Magicman2051]

There is no restriction in terms of genre or content, as long as it fulfils the requirements of the OP.

[Derpy Hooves]

Can we ask people to read it, maybe people who are not on TWC? I am talking about before the voting starts. I would not try convincing people to vote for it, just to read it.