Weak units

[kRUZH]

So generally do i place my weaker units in the front and the stronger units in the back?

[Silverheart]

Depends on wether you want to keep them alive or not...
But generally, I place Pikemen/Halberdiers/Spearmen in the first line, then the strongest elite units (send in after enemy charge) and the weakest units behind those (send in after elites to provide additional push) - so basically: Defensive, Offensive, Weaklings.

[kRUZH]

Sounds good where do u place archers?

[kRUZH]

And whats the pros and cons of having a very long thin line?

[Cyrus Da Great]

And whats the pros and cons of having a very long thin line?

Line-infantry are weak when it comes to shooting

[=Bright=]

And whats the pros and cons of having a very long thin line?

Cons? Well, 1 charge of heavy cavalry units and your line is torn apart.
Pros? You can easily outflank the enemy.

[Avatar]

Archers go at the front of your initial line, especially if its crossbowmen who are much more effective when firing directly rather than over the heads of their comrades.

[Silverheart]

Archers (in particular Crossbowmen and Gunmen) should always be placed in front of the army - make sure to keep good check on the distance to the enemy, though, and have them retreat before they get caught. I usually order my infantry to charge at the same time as I order the missilemen to retreat.

Pros of a long field line: You cover a larger area, and are less vulnerable should the enemy for some reason try to outflank you. With more units over a larger area, you can respond to approaching enemies quicker. If the enemy is outnumbered, you may be able to surround them.
Cons of a long field line: It´s much easier for the enemy to make a gap and break through if they focus their attack on a single spot. Weaker units may end up without any heavy troops to hold their back or help them out - the battle is more likely to devolve into chaos. Enemy outflanking tactics are better countered with cavalry than infantry.

[Aeratus]

Putting weak units up front is a way for them to soak up the charge of enemy knights. But that's only if you treat your weak units as cannon fodder.

One more thing to consider -- the casualties that heal at the end of the battle use a "first-to-die -> first-to-heal" system. The advantage of having strong units at the front is that those units will die first, meaning that they have the highest priority in getting healed after combat. Therefore, if your army is much stronger than the enemy's, I'd send in the most expensive units first, up front.

For archers -- If you're on a hill, then I think archers should almost always go at the back, since the hill will give them the elevation to easily fire over your front line.

[PrestigeX]

3 Lines.

archers up front, spears/pikes behind, infantry (heavy/light infantry) 3rd rank.

if you are defending, esp on a hill, run your archers to the rear early so they can continue firing. otherwise...

I keep my archers in the same spot and move infantry/spears forward... If enemy is cavalry heavy then spears/pikes move up and infantry are behind.

If the enemy is going to rush with infantry, you send your infantry forward -- run them/charge them. Then the spears/pikes engage from the rear.

Archers - many in the game are not bad at all in melee, so you can use them to attack if needed - sometimes that extra momentum turn the tide. Otherwise, you can re-position them and get in better shooting position.

a lot of the time the pike/spear and infantry lines will double up together and its like.. on top of each other but one is slightly more forward than the other depending on type of foe --- ie. vs. Infantry, ur inf. is 2-3 ranks ahead of pikes/spears. And vice versa if dealing with cav.

Mix your really cheap units in with sme of the bettere quality ones, make sure it's evenly dispersed -- ie. don't keep all the elites on one side of the army, and all the poor on the other.

[kRUZH]

Thanks all

[El Cid99]

Another intersting tactic you can try with a pike-wielding faction (Spain, Portugal, Scotland, Milan, Venice, France) is to put your pikes fractionally BEHIND your heavy infantry. Make sure that your heavy infantry is "inside" your pikes; that is, the actual pikes extend further forwards than your heavy infantry. This way, you get the heavy infantry's killing power, combined with backup, and a holding force/anti-cavalry force in your pikemen, both active at once.

Good unit combinations:

Venice: Pike militia+Venetian Heavy Infantry
Spain: Pike militia/Tercios+Sword+Buckler Men/Dismounted Conquistadores
Portugal: Pike militia/Aventuros+Dismounted Portuguese Knights/Dismounted Conquistadores
France: Pikemen+Dismounted Feudal/Noble Knights
Scotland: Noble Pikemen+Noble Swordsmen/Highland Nobles

Milan lacks good heavy infantry,so the only real option is: Pike militia+Dismounted Feudal Knights.

France are probably better off using just a unit of Voulgiers, because of the way polearms are desugned and implemented in-game.

[kRUZH]

btw should i try to make a long thin line most of the time? up until now ive had it like normal sized line

[Silverheart]

I prefer the short line and compact army, what with my Cavalry usually doing most of the killing in the battle and the footmen just being there to defend themselves as best they can when the enemy gets to them.

[Nazgûl Killer]

That depends on the area you're trying to cover. I often use a long thin line for my heavy infantry units so they can cover the weaker spear units, but a thick line for my spear units to withstand any charge made at them. Otherwise it also depends on the size of your formation and so on and so on.

There are plenty of benefits to a thin long line; Covering a lot of groups, fewers casualties (Usually) in the initial cavalry charge, better cover for all your units... But there are plenty of downsides as well; Unable to withstand any charge, lines are easily devastated and routed, being cut down by cavalry rather easily because they breach your lines quite easily.

I think that making a choice between a thick line and a long thin one is rather foolish, you should combine them both strategically to allow minimal casualties and maximum cover for all your units.

And for your original question; I tend to use my weaker units as a cannon fodder and usually place them in front of the line, just behind my spearmen. My heavy, more costly, troops I keep behind them to provide the final push and rout to the enemy army.

If I am on the offensive, I send my light infantry in first - Being quicker and cheaper, they make excellent cannon fodder and a great focus for their archers - While I send my heavy infantry behind them or out the flanks to surround and destroy their armies once they attack my weaker units.

I remember experimenting with sending heavy infantry first and keeping the cheaper ones alive because I thought it would benefit my economy. A Jihad later, I noticed how wrong I was. I was forced to face all the armies of Islam with poor units. Weaker units are insignificant. Dispose yourself of them, they're dead weight.

[Bringer Of Storms]

Me personally, I prefer to take the initiative and always be the attacker. Even if the enemy attacks me, I always make the first move. Unless I'm severely outnumbered, I'll take a seat on a hill and do my best to cripple their army as much as possible for my next army to have an easier job, or potentially win (that's nice too)

My reasoning for always taking the initiative is simple. Look at this thread, people are asking which units are you okay with losing. What length of a line is best for soaking up charges? I don't want any of that happening to me. I want that to happen to the enemy. I persoanlly put the archers in front with skirmish on. Trade arrows with the enemy and pelt any advancing troops while my cavalry methodically work their way around the enemy. Hopefully getting behind without any problems, or even better drawing their cavalry away from the main body. Once my cavalry is either behind the enemy army, or their cavalry are chasing or engaged with my cavalry, my infantry moves forward with 2-4 units breaking off in both directions to stave off any flanking, and to create my own flanking movement once my main line reaches theirs. With missile cavalry, this strategy is all the more devastating.

I mainly play the Byzantine Empire, Russia, ect. I use this strategy because I prefer the heavy cavalry nations. If your playing England, or a less cavalry oriented nation, this post may have no relevance to you.

But to your original question, it's completely situational. I often put the weakest in the front to soak up the initial blow to save my more expensive troops. Although unless you can quickly reinforce them, it can be a risky move. If your troops get hit hard enough they could very well rout the moment they're hit, causing all of your nearby troops morale to drop, and just like that, you could have a mass chain rout. No fun for you.

To your line question, as stated above by =Bright=, the thinner the line, the easier it will be breached, but the remaining troops can wrap around the enemy unit. Surrounding troops is a great way to break morale.

[Aeratus]

I think generally, a thin line is better if you have a lot of cavalry. This is because the risk of having them "breaking through" is trivial.

If their knight charges through a center unit, then you have your own cavalry to immediately send in to that gap. After their knight is routed, you can reorganized the line and eliminate the hole. If one of their infantry unit breaks through the center, that is of no consequence because the infantry will still be stuck by your units around it, and is not a threat in the sense of outflanking you.