All things Orcsie

[freitach]

I like the new kind of wargs idea, but probably make them a AOR, so e.g. you can only grow wargs in a plain area or really limited access in the mountains.

Skirmish wargs (with javelins) would be great and what I think would be even better: wargriders with spears, so they can charge.
That would make fighting the OotMM way more difficult, especially for elves. I mean the riders shouldn't be really good (so no big armor or whatever), but they could stop the scattering of 6 archer units on skirmish and wait till everybody is dead.

ANd why not make a "Shieldtroll" -> increasing moral, having a biiiiiiig wooden shield (but not that much health as other trolls), no good weapon
so would be made to draw the fire of archers on it and let the troops get close to the enemy (moral boost, as they are happy not getting shot).

[smoesville]

ANd why not make a "Shieldtroll" -> increasing moral, having a biiiiiiig wooden shield (but not that much health as other trolls), no good weapon
so would be made to draw the fire of archers on it and let the troops get close to the enemy (moral boost, as they are happy not getting shot).

I like this idea, they can have a shield like the medieval siege shields they had for archers, but made worse. As to being weaker trolls, why not have them as hill trolls?

[Guurt]

I only ever use the Orcs of Misty Mountains and I don't see any problems with them.

They are just orcs. They aren't a faction that you should be playing if you wanted some advanced unit types.

They are a primitive horde of orcs that rely on overpowering the enemy through sheer numbers.

It would be a bit disturbing if the orcs suddenly had all these advanced unit types.

I realize that people want new orc units I just hope that the flavor of the orc horde isn't lost through the addition of advanced unit types.

[Poosticks7]

@Guurt You only use the Orcs of the Misty Mountains...really? Wow doesn't that get repetitive?

I wasn't just talking about playing as them, I find it boring playing against them too.

When you say advanced units you mean some of the AoR ideas I and other's have mentioned I assume. I'm not talking about orcsies that can go toe to toe with fountain guard or anything just an expansion of the range of units available.

Surely you can agree that 9 units is a pretty small roster?

[brasswire]

One of the Orc factions (either OoG or OotMM) seriously needs to have a Wolf using this model from the Myth the Fallen Lords mod (assuming the creator would be open to sharing).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It is beautiful.

[Hercules18]

One of the Orc factions (either OoG or OotMM) seriously needs to have a Wolf using this model from the Myth the Fallen Lords mod (assuming the creator would be open to sharing).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It is beautiful.

Wow those are simply amazing!

[Guurt]

@Guurt You only use the Orcs of the Misty Mountains...really? Wow doesn't that get repetitive?

I wasn't just talking about playing as them, I find it boring playing against them too.

When you say advanced units you mean some of the AoR ideas I and other's have mentioned I assume. I'm not talking about orcsies that can go toe to toe with fountain guard or anything just an expansion of the range of units available.

Surely you can agree that 9 units is a pretty small roster?

To be honest, I do think that 9 different units is enough, though they have more than 9 units if you include the more armored versions which I do think should count as different units.

I believe they currently have 13 different units... though that count is off of the top of my head, so I may be wrong about it.

You can always hire mercenaries if you need more.

As for being repetitive, the entire nature of the game is repetition. It isn't like the other factions have flying units, or snipers, or some other fundamental game type. All the units are essentially ranged, infantry, siege, or mounted.

I like the orcs for their simplicity and feeling of this untamed hoard of wild orcs. I don't think they would have many different sorts of units. They are the swarm.

Anyway, just my two cents.

[Death's Deputy]

I like the orcs for their simplicity and feeling of this untamed hoard of wild orcs. I don't think they would have many different sorts of units. They are the swarm.

I can see your point of view, but I think some extra flavour and variety could be added without stopping them being a "swarm". By late game in particular I find OoTMM units are severely outmatched, and you are dependent on trolls to achieve anything. Trolls are fun, but not that fun. A few tougher, elitish units would help stop this and also make them more fun to play. I think most people would agree with me on this.

[Poosticks7]

To be honest, I do think that 9 different units is enough, though they have more than 9 units if you include the more armored versions which I do think should count as different units.

I believe they currently have 13 different units... though that count is off of the top of my head, so I may be wrong about it.

There are 9 units not counting bodyguards, catapults and ballistas... oh and the balrog.

That's including the more armoured units.

[Louis Lux]

I wouldn't bother with archers since there are enough of them and it's not really the focus of an orc army. The orcs needs to establish their brute force, so more heavy infantry, troll and creature units.

-Great Goblins - 2H axe or some sort of crude poleaxe

-Pit Masters - spear or pike

-Hill Trolls - light unit no weapon

-Troll Drummers - club +morale surrounding troops

-Warg or Wolf - no rider

-Armored Warg with rider

[Hercules18]

I wouldn't bother with archers since there are enough of them and it's not really the focus of an orc army. The orcs needs to establish their brute force, so more heavy infantry, troll and creature units.

-Great Goblins - 2H axe or some sort of crude poleaxe

-Pit Masters - spear or pike

-Hill Trolls - light unit no weapon

-Troll Drummers - club +morale surrounding troops

-Warg or Wolf - no rider

-Armored Warg with rider

That's almost perfect! warg riders with javelins too

[Poosticks7]

I wouldn't bother with archers since there are enough of them and it's not really the focus of an orc army. The orcs needs to establish their brute force, so more heavy infantry, troll and creature units.

-Great Goblins - 2H axe or some sort of crude poleaxe

-Pit Masters - spear or pike

-Hill Trolls - light unit no weapon

-Troll Drummers - club +morale surrounding troops

-Warg or Wolf - no rider

-Armored Warg with rider

Yey I attracted a TATW member to my humble orcsie thread.

Thanks for commenting LL, I know your busy with your lovely elfsies.

I do agree that orcsies emphasis should be on brute power but I disagree about orcs not needing another archer unit (one that can wade into combat as well is very orcsie I think). What about making it a AoR unit from the Grey Mountains (i.e limited availability) My thinking being - If I was an orcsie and I had to fight Dwarves I wouldn't want to go anywhere near them, I'd want to fill the little beardy buggers with arrows from a distance.

For the Great Goblins weapons, I was going off the description of Bolg's bodyguard from the Hobbit book. (I think I'm remembering it right).

Pit Masters/guard - I agree a spear would make sense.

Hill Trolls - My idea for the Hill Trolls was doubling the number of Trolls in a unit (i.e 24 on huge setting) but giving the reduced stats in comparison to cave trolls to reflect their smaller size.

Troll Drummer - Would be a cool addition I think (would make sense for Mordor too).

Wolves/Wargs - Those wolves that someone post would be a great addition.

Armoured Warg - Not sure how much you could armour a warg without it looking odd, but a heavier spear wielding warg rider would be a good addition I think. Although I think a javelin armed warg rider would make the Elf and Dwarf players cry.

[XtReMeDeAfNeSs]

I really like all the ideas. I usually play the elves and eriador the most and it gets boring somethings around turn 150+ when the orcs use the same units over and over and over again. Its a great mod nonetheless. I just think the orcs need more love(meaning reworked roster) than any other faction, imo.

[HandKing]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I wanted to start a thread to talk about spicing up the unit rosters for the OoMM faction. Now I have no modding skills myself but I’m a fairly knowledgeable about all things Tolkien and I have a passion to see the orcsie faction more exciting so I thought I’d start a discussion on all things Orcsie.

Please chip in with any thoughts or argument on what the orcs of the mountains need to jazz up their roster. Hopefully we can generate some ideas for the TATW team or perhaps inspire one of the talented moddlers to start an orcsie submod project.

Now I’ve been thinking about some of this stuff for a while but the topic came back to my thoughts during the High Elves campaign I’ve been playing since TATW 3.0 came out. The OoMM roster is boring to fight let alone play! Another thing that occurred to me was how many enemies the Orcsie have. They are the main antagonist (along with OoG) for the Dwarves, High Elves, Sylvan Elves and Eriador. So such a prominent faction really needs a good roster I think.


I started thinking how the roster could be made more appealing and I actually looked at the Gondor roster for inspiration ( a roster that is fully rounded out with a good mix of troop types). The main thing I saw was that of the 16 units in the Gondor roster, 9 of the units were AoR units (almost half the roster). Compared to OoMM 1 unit (cave trolls) out of a total of 9 units (yes the same amount as Gondor’s AoR units).

So I rattled my brain and tried to think of some new units for the OoMM roster including some interesting AoR units for the OoMM and here’s what I came up with:


Mountain Orcs: A bow unit with a bit of ability in close combat (Archer Range Lv3) AoR mountains (obviously)

Warriors of the Black Pit or Pit guard : AoR Elite goblin unit based off the Hvy Goblin infantry but armed with two swords. (Barracks Lv4) AoR Moria

Great Goblins: The larger more dangerous denizens of the mountain inspired by Bolg’s bodyguard. Armed with scimitars and shields and armoured well. AoR Goblin Town and possibly Moria.

Wolves of the Mountain: Well wolves obviously. (Stables Lv1) bumping warg riders up a tier. AoR mountains

Warg Riders with bows/javelins: like snarga hunters but on big slobbering wargs, (everyone will love fighting them) (Stables Lv3)

Hill Trolls: A smaller but smarter Troll (than cave trolls) that fights with primitive weapons and basic tactics during raid to the surrounding lands for their goblin allies. (Same Tier as Cave Trolls)

Okay that’s all I’ve got for now. Please comment and add your own ideas to the thread. And if you can make units just whip these couple of units up for me please.


Edit: Other folks ideas:

Smoesville idea (or LL's) : Troll Drummers

Death's Deputy Ideas:

Moria Uruks - AoR Moria only, low recruitment pool to represent their elite status and lack of numbers. These are tough heavy infantry units armed with swords and maybe shields. They have been sent by Sauron to better organise the OotMM for planned future assaults on Lorien, Mirkwood, Imladris and the Dwarves, and the other goblins look up to them as the elite of their army. As a result they inspire nearby friendly units. Lore justification: In the books, when Gandalf first confronts the orcs in Moria he mentions to the rest of the party that some of the orcs "...are large and evil, black Uruks of Mordor".

Avengers of Bolg - AoR Goblin Town only, low recruitment pool again. Swift and deadly light infantry, in the style of the Haradrim Hashishi. Armed with two crude scimitars. Low armour but high attack, smaller numbers than most orc units. These orcs are cultist fanatics, intent on avenging the death of Bolg in the battle of the five armies by killing as many dwarves, elves and men as they can. Lore justification: There is none, but it would hardly be severe lore-rape.

Orcs of the Grey Mountains - AoR Grey Mountain settlement only (I think OotMM start with it and I think it is called "Dain's halls"). These Orcs are slightly different from their Misty Mountain kindred with whom they fight. They are larger and tougher, living in a tough and barren landscape rather than hiding away in Moria or Goblin Town, and skirmish regularly with the Elves of Mirkwood. They fight as skirmishers, armed with bows and swords/axes, and are very good archers as well as capable melee warriors. Their equipment is of superior quality to most orcs, since they are more relient on it to survive. Recruitment pool would be medium and units size would be smaller than most orcs, since they are scouts, ambushers and skirmishers rather than part of the horde. Lore justification - Well it wouldn't be lore rape, and I think the Grey Mountains deserve a AoR unit.


Mhaedros' idea: Winter wolves (probably make more sense for OoG I think)


freitach's idea: Warg riders with spears

I 100% support the addition of new units into the goblin roster!

Drum Trolls - Awesome
Wolves (as wardogs) - Awesome
Warg Skirmishers - Awesome
More Inf - Great

My only question would be can wargs be improved movement-wise? For a skirmishing cavalry role, they'd need improved reactions/manouverability in my opinion. In my experience, wargs are clumsy and cumbersome to order around the battlefield...

I think Gundabad could probably do with an additional unit or two of these, where a crossover is relevant...

I also liked the idea of a "shield troll" even though it's not necessarily lore-accurate. Maybe a slower moving troll with resistance to missiles and a tiny recruitment rate would be a good addition to the orcish army! I don't think they should have less health, just make them more cumbersome, and fewer in number... they would truely serve as a distraction in that case...

[Skald]

Very good ideas, i like them!

[Louis Lux]

There is already a heavy unit and the bodyguard with sword+shield so I think a 2H weapon would make more sense. Three archer units + a skirmisher unit is more than enough ranged power for them. There are only 3 pure infantry units which is on the low side, other factions have many more infantry units, Dwarves for example have 9.

As for warg skirmishers I think it makes less sense than a armoured warg, a warg would lack stability for a accurate throw but I think it would be strong enough to carry some armor without impairing their agility. Anyway one more warg rider unit is not that necessary.

[IrishBlood]

goblin looters/pillagers/raiders

Goblins armed and armoured in an assortment of the weapons and equipment of their enemies. e.g,Dwarfin axes, human swords etc, see where im going with this?

[Poosticks7]

goblin looters/pillagers/raiders

Goblins armed and armoured in an assortment of the weapons and equipment of their enemies. e.g,Dwarfin axes, human swords etc, see where im going with this?

I was actually thinking about something similar. An AOR unit for Erebor and Thorin's Halls (would give the OoMM player somthing to aim for as a campaign objective). Orc Despoilers or some such, armed and armoured with Dwarven gear. Would by really hard for a modeller to pull off though without them looking odd.

Another idea I had was some kind of Goblin version of Uruk Beserkers. Yes I know that sounds odd but imagine a rare Moria AoR cultist unit that worships the Balrog. I'd say call them goblin fanatics but that makes me think of Warhammer . Obviously with stats to reflect their small stature, I don't mean they'd be on par with Uruk Beserkers.

[Poosticks7]

So has anyone else got any thoughts?


did something just go bump or was it just me?

[Vonebor]

I was actually thinking about something similar. An AOR unit for Erebor and Thorin's Halls (would give the OoMM player somthing to aim for as a campaign objective). Orc Despoilers or some such, armed and armoured with Dwarven gear. Would by really hard for a modeller to pull off though without them looking odd.

I quite like this idea! Goblins are supposed get a lot of their armor from their fallen enemies, so having them use the arms of the major faction settlement they just conquered makes a lot of sense! It probably makes the most sense for the dwarves, but if they expanded far enough it'd be funny to see them with other faction's equipment.