The existence of privilege and the American Dream

[Matthias]

I would like to posit the idea that the "American Dream" as it is commonly known never actually existed and still continues to be an ideal our society has as of yet to reach.

The American Dream commonly defined means:

life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

But this isn't true. At all. The social class or circumstances of your birth matter a HUGE amount when determining where you will end up in life. Study after study has shown this. This is because of the existence of privilege. Privilege comes in innumerable forms. Everyone has some privileges, some have more than others. Some of the common ones heard in the American context are white privilege, male privilege, straight privilege, economic privilege. But there is of course black privilege, female privilege, gay privilege, etc. as well. Not many privileges go along with these latter groups, but the point is, there are privileges everywhere, for everything. And these privileges aren't seperate per se, but interact with each other in many ways.

And, there are obstacles everywhere to those with less privilege.

Now, as a democracy committed to the American Dream as an ideal, at least, I always find it funny when many people vote for or pursue policies that actually enhance the power of privilege, all in pursuit of pushing the "American Dream". Or, even more than that, an outright denial that privilege exists, or that it matters much, and an assertion that we are, indeed, living in a perfect meritocracy, and we shouldn't fix what isn't broken.

People who say such things come across as woefully naive to me. As idealists of a sort, more wild-eyed than the most fervant marxists, to be able to deny such an obvious reality. But then again, privilege is not easy to spot if you have it. Much less if you are immersed in privilege. Indeed, if your whole neighborhood and everyone you know has a lot of privilege, that would seem the norm to you.

This is not to say that privilege is everything, and that no one can move up or down the social ladder. People can, and do, but they do so in spite of privilege, not due to our society being a perfect meritocracy. And far more do not.

Now, relatively speaking, our society is more of a meritocracy, more fair, and more just than many other regimes out there, and especially if we were to look to most of history. But that shouldn't stop us from facing the reality that there is still a ways to go.

Unfortunately, when it comes to talking about privilege, those who try to explain, in my experience, are not always the most diplomatic and put people on the defensive. I have seen the "lists" of privileges that certain groups have. But the truth is, every individual will have different privileges. It's almost impossible to come up with a male privilege that applies to all males, etc. etc. But rather, it should be pointed out that generally, certain groups receive advantages simply for being members of that group.

The reason it needs to be pointed out is because it seems so few people acknowledge that privilege even exists because it is hard to see. And many more don't want to talk about privilege because it means taking a hard look at society and perhaps exploding myths about American ideals, and maybe even having to examine themselves, which even fewer people want to do, in any context.

Here is a video explaining one type of privilege, white privilege (in the American context):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...49801848706206

I like the way this guy explains this particular privilege, but it could be applied to any privilege. It is hard to see privilege basically, but if we want to make our societies more fair and want to live up to the ideal of the "American Dream", then we have to acknowledge and talk about privilege.

[Condottiere 40K]

All societies have some form of class and caste system, which is even present and maintained during the birth of the American nation.

What America had was room to grow, the space and ideology to permit those with the drive and luck to move up the social and financial ladder; what may be different now is that America has hit the boundaries of it's potential, which means it cannot expand outwardly anymore, but needs to develop inwardly. The last outburst of outward development would be the Credit crisis, where Americans mortgaged their future, with the connivance of the financial industry and the compliance of the political class, in willful ignorance of the consequences, living in a sort of bubble that emphasized their present needs and wishes. Perhaps this could be called a Las Vegas economy or mindset, that despite the fact the odds are with the casino, the gambler believes he will be one of the few that actually come out on top.

This sort of mindset permits the unquestioning acceptance of the American Dream ideology and unfettered capitalism, because deep down Americans want it to be true, which is rather similar to what happened to Germany in the 1930s. It's always at the expense of some other group, and squandering of national resources has now cannibalized the middle class not just the dirt poor or the working poor, which is why you now begin to notice it.

[matmohair1]

[karo]

The American dream always seemed to me as the opportunity to improve your life and climb the financial ladder. A promise for a better life for you and the generations to come. It also to mean means it doesn't matter your social status there is always a chance to work your self up.

[Vanoi]

The American dream always seemed to me as the opportunity to improve your life and climb the financial ladder. A promise for a better life for you and the generations to come. It also to mean means it doesn't matter your social status there is always a chance to work your self up.

Thats pretty similar to what most people consider the American Dream.

The American Dream is different for everyone. I don't think what Matthias described is what most people consider to be the "American Dream." Karo has a much better definition.

I guess you can call me an idealist. I believe the "American Dream" is achieveable. It just all depends on what your "American Dream" is.

[Matthias]

Thats pretty similar to what most people consider the American Dream.

The American Dream is different for everyone. I don't think what Matthias described is what most people consider to be the "American Dream." Karo has a much better definition.

I guess you can call me an idealist. I believe the "American Dream" is achieveable. It just all depends on what your "American Dream" is.

His definition is pretty much exactly the same as mine. The idea is that everyone has the same opportunity, regardless of where they were born, to achieve what they would like. That's not the case.

You're only given the chance for happiness. You have to catch it yourself.

Some are given better odds than others. And I'm not talking about "happiness" per se, which is entirely subjective, but rather things like income, safety, a stable job, a nice neighborhood, etc. etc., all things that certainly can help someone be "happy" in many ways.

Matthias, If I may ask you. How old are you? What do you do for a living?

It's irrelevant. Do you have a point?

Priveleges exist for some people, but that doesn't matter to people who don't have them.

Of course it does. Others have a leg up on them in life. It has a huge impact on people. It matters if you are born to rich parents or to a single mom in poverty. Crazy, I know.

And privileges exist for all people. Everyone has some sort or other, but some obviously have much more than others, and privileges that are much more powerful.

Just reading your OP though I'm reminded of a c omparision. The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'

This has nothing to do with capitalist/communist comparisons. This is about equal opportunity, not equality in results. The most fervent capitalists believe dearly in equal opportunity, since they rely so much on a meritocracy to produce efficiency. So the fact that it doesn't really exist, you think, might upset them. Basically, we invest in some human capital far more than others, while claiming that everyone is invested in the same. That's not true.

[panzer 4]

the American Dream is to conquer the entire world

[matmohair1]

simply capitalism & colonialism - it benefits the rich only
while the rest just keep on following the marketed carrots
blindly submitting to whatever crumbs the elite scatter from above
its just bread and circuses

[Visna]

Moved to the Academy.

[Rolling Thunder]

You're only given the chance for happiness. You have to catch it yourself.

[ztrain909]

Matthias, If I may ask you. How old are you? What do you do for a living?

[Acco]

and still continues to be an ideal our society has as of yet to reach.

I don't believe anyone in their right mind would say the U.S. is close to meeting the principles of the American Dream. The Dream (in the national sense) has not been achieved and will probably never be achieved, as it is impossible to be perfect. But that is the point of national ideals: to set goals for your nation and to strive constantly in the direction of those goals. In my opinion, the American Dream is worth striving for and I think it is a positive influence.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Someone being born richer or provided with more education than you does not prevent you from pursuing happiness in any way. Priveleges exist for some people, but that doesn't matter to people who don't have them.

We must be responisble for ourselves. The reason people from certain backrounds are less well off is because unfortuantely nurture influences our personal development. But that doesn't mea someone from a poor backround cannot move up the financial ladder. That's the American dream after all.

Just reading your OP though I'm reminded of a c omparision. The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'

[Sphere]

There are some very concerning developments in the US right now.

For one, since 1980 societal wealth has been increasingly concentrated at the very top, so much so that the wealth imbalance is reaching levels not seen since the Gilded Age. This bodes ill for the future, especially for such a heavily consumer based economy, as growing the economy with near stagnant wealth creation for consumers is an uphill battle. There are many factors contributing to this, but left or right the trend should worry you.

[ztrain909]

It actually is relevant. It seems that most of the people who complain about this country are those that have not really lived yet. Those that have not had to wake up every day and provide for themselves and their family. Your normal average person could care less about such subjects, they are too busy trying to survive, trying to do what they can to achieve the so called- "American Dream." I watched about 15 minutes of your propagandist video and saw only a rabble-rouser. Colleges are huge arena's for these type of "hate America" agenda's. College kid's minds are like sponges, just ready to soak up any kind of knowledge that someone will throw at them. Let's say that what that idiot(I don't care how many degrees he holds) was talking about is true. What will you do with that knowledge? How will it affect your life in a positive manner? I'll tell how. If your white, it really doesn't affect you, if your a normal hardworking black, mexican, puerto rican, etc it would make you strive harder to prove all those statistics wrong. Please don't tell me that raising awareness about this will help either. I'd like to see you go into any inner-city corner with a bunch of gang-bangers hanging out, and tell them that you sympathize with their plight. If they don't rob and beat you, they would probably laugh at you. No one really cares, except revolutionaries, 1960's rejects, and general lazy losers. It is a very common misconception that someone else is always to blame for an individual's failures. This is what society is teaching and telling young people constantly. A "real" person will not ever accept failure because of a perceived "rigged system" against him/her. They will always strive to achieve a higher standard for him/herself. That is "America" That very idea has been the driving force behind creating the greatest concept for a people in the history of man. The notion that the "individual" (NOT THE COLLECTIVE) has the right and the opportunity to pursue his/her own happiness. It's up to us to succeed or fail. You are NEVER going to find a perfect "UTOPIA" here on earth. It's impossible, because humans are flawed. I'll never know what it's like to be black(I'm white), nor do I really care to know. The best I can do is try and help those in need(of all races) when I can. I do know that most of us will face an uphill battle(some more than others) in trying to reach that dream. That's just life. Real people, who live it everyday accept it as a part of life. They don't cry and throw a temper tantrum when something doesn't go their way. I am amazed at the number of hate America posts on these forums. America will always have problems of different natures. If you and others like you hate it so much, go live in North Korea, tell us all how that works out for you. If you decide to stay here, then buck up like a real "American" and hold on for the bumpy ride.

[Matthias]

It actually is relevant. It seems that most of the people who complain about this country are those that have not really lived yet. Those that have not had to wake up every day and provide for themselves and their family.

I don't know, I hold the opposite view generally. It is those with the least privilege that generally recognize it the easiest, and those with the most that don't. Age doesn't play too much into it. Those with the most privilege have little to complain about in this country. Those with the least privilege do. It has nothing to do with "complaining about the country" and everything to do with reality. As I already have said, I'm not saying that the US is a horrible place, relative to the rest of the world. Rather, I'm pointing out that the US isn't perfect, and we should recognize that if we want to make it better.

Your normal average person could care less about such subjects, they are too busy trying to survive, trying to do what they can to achieve the so called- "American Dream."

Well, that's the problem isn't it? I think people with little privilege do indeed care about it, as they see how it effects them in their day to day lives, but they also have the least power, and are not listened to by society.

I watched about 15 minutes of your propagandist video and saw only a rabble-rouser. Colleges are huge arena's for these type of "hate America" agenda's. College kid's minds are like sponges, just ready to soak up any kind of knowledge that someone will throw at them.

What about his agenda is "hate America"? Because he is critical of it?

Let's say that what that idiot(I don't care how many degrees he holds) was talking about is true. What will you do with that knowledge? How will it affect your life in a positive manner? I'll tell how. If your white, it really doesn't affect you, if your a normal hardworking black, mexican, puerto rican, etc it would make you strive harder to prove all those statistics wrong.

Well, truth be told, if you have little privilege, you generally already know about it. I don't see how it motivates people with little privilege to "prove statistics wrong" when the system itself is set up against them. The point is, the statistics are simply a reflection of the reality that there isn't equal opporunity in this country. The statistics will only be "proven wrong" when the system itself changes for the better.

For those with privilege to actually understand the advantages they have will allow them to support policies that lead to more equal opportunity. For example, if you think that you, being born in an upper class neighborhood, have the same opportunities as someone born in a poverty-stricken neighborhood, then you are less likely to support social programs to eradicate poverty, since poverty is the result of each individual's own actions, given that everyone has the same opportunities in life. Indeed, your solution will be that the person in the poverty-stricken neighborhood just "work hard" or "get an education".

Please don't tell me that raising awareness about this will help either. I'd like to see you go into any inner-city corner with a bunch of gang-bangers hanging out, and tell them that you sympathize with their plight. If they don't rob and beat you, they would probably laugh at you.

No one has to tell people with little privilege about their plight, they already know it. Actually, the formation of gangs is simply one way of responding to this plight in broken neighborhoods. There is an awareness that the system is not fair, and is indeed set up against them, and this is used as a justification for breaking the laws of a society that is fundamentally unfair.

No one really cares, except revolutionaries, 1960's rejects, and general lazy losers. It is a very common misconception that someone else is always to blame for an individual's failures. This is what society is teaching and telling young people constantly.

I don't think it is being said that someone else is "always" to blame for an individual's failures, just that factors outside of an individual's control have an inordinate amount of influence over their success.

A "real" person will not ever accept failure because of a perceived "rigged system" against him/her.

No, that would be a foolish person. If you run in a race where your opponent is always given a 10 second head start, and you constantly lose, it is foolish to say the problem is your lack of training. That is, it ignores the problem and won't solve it.

They will always strive to achieve a higher standard for him/herself. That is "America" That very idea has been the driving force behind creating the greatest concept for a people in the history of man.

Isn't this a lot of hyperbole? "The greatest concept for a people in the history of man"? Really? Don't you think that's a bit arrogant for anyone to proclaim about any country? I mean, not to mention, isn't it a little harder to be critical of oneself if you think you are the greatest thing there ever was? Is that what America is all about? Burying one's head in the sand because you are the greatest thing the planet as ever seen?

The notion that the "individual" (NOT THE COLLECTIVE) has the right and the opportunity to pursue his/her own happiness. It's up to us to succeed or fail.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? Under the current system, quite a few people have quite a lot less opportunity to pursue happiness. Don't you see?

You are NEVER going to find a perfect "UTOPIA" here on earth. It's impossible, because humans are flawed. I'll never know what it's like to be black(I'm white), nor do I really care to know. The best I can do is try and help those in need(of all races) when I can.

Why do you not care to know? I mean, if you don't care about inequality, then of course you have little need for empathy. But don't you think that empathy is a requirment to understanding how society works? If you want to help people in need, doesn't it make sense to figure out why there are people in need? You know, to address the source of the problem?

I do know that most of us will face an uphill battle(some more than others) in trying to reach that dream. That's just life.

This sounds like "yeah, I may have advantages in life, but too bad, suck it up, I got mine". Well, if you have few privileges, you might understand why that answer comes across as offensive. Of course there is never going to be a utopia, but to just not want to try to strive for a more equitable society because "life isn't fair" doesn't make much sense. Why isn't it fair? We might as well fix the things that we have the power to fix.

Real people, who live it everyday accept it as a part of life. They don't cry and throw a temper tantrum when something doesn't go their way.

What is with this "real" people thing you keep doing? Aren't all people real? People who just accept that life is unfair and trudge on, as you seem to advocate, seem like those who are so downtrodden and cynical of society that they don't even care anymore, since they don't believe change can happen. That seems like a pretty horrible attitude, one that seems to contradict the hopeful ideals of the Constitution.

I am amazed at the number of hate America posts on these forums. America will always have problems of different natures. If you and others like you hate it so much, go live in North Korea, tell us all how that works out for you. If you decide to stay here, then buck up like a real "American" and hold on for the bumpy ride.

One doesn't "hate America" because one criticizes it. This problem exists in every country, some more so than others. As I already prefaced in my first post, since this is a tired rebuttal I hear every time. It seems your advice is to just ignore all injustices and pretend things are hunky dory. This is easier to do if you benefit from the injustices. Well, most of the American populace has been doing just that. Doesn't seem to have gotten us great places.

[bushbush]

I agree with OP to the extent that opportunity is often not equal because of birth and parents' wealth.

Parental income is a better predictor of a child’s future in America than in much of Europe, implying that social mobility is less powerful. Different groups of Americans have different levels of opportunity. Those born to the middle class have about an equal chance of moving up or down the income ladder, according to the Economic Mobility Project. But those born to black middle-class families are much more likely than their white counterparts to fall in rank. The children of the rich and poor, meanwhile, are less mobile than the middle class’s. More than 40% of those Americans born in the bottom quintile remain stuck there as adults.

http://www.economist.com/node/15908469

[LSJ]

I remember a good line from a documentary regarding social mobility; "if you want to live the American dream, you'd better move to Denmark."

[ztrain909]

I'm very happy that you responded the way you did, as a spokesperson for the poor and underprivileged. I would like to share 4 different "personal" stories with you, as I am in the "real" world, and I don't know your status, because you have not answered my question as to how old you are and what profession you have(if you even have a job).
Please bear with me, I am sorry if this is long-worded, but I feel you need to hear these stories, as it deals with real people and not some statistics that some lecturer talks about. Each story deals with 4 guys in their 20's. 1-white, 1- black, 1 mexican and 1-indian(dot not feather). My wife is a recruiter with one of the largest temp agencies in the country. Most jobs that she employs people for start at about $8- $10/hr. Not much I know, but something is better than nothing, you would think?
White guy- young 20's. Lives in my neighborhood. Son of an older guy I know and hang out with at a neighborhood social club. The father was always a street guy, a hustler. Son wants to be just like dad. Constantly in/out of trouble with the cops, a regular punk. Dad bails him out all the time. The kid has never held a regular job, always hustling, stealing, doing whatever he could to make a buck. Father comes to me asks if I could help through my wife to get him a regular job. I talk to the kid face to face, tell him that my wife's reputation is on the line here. He says that he will honor us and will not disappoint us. Wife gets him a job paying $10/hr. Assignment lasts 8 weeks, but if he works out well, there would be a chance to be hired full time with an immediate raise. Long story short, the kid is constantly late, and tools come up missing at the worksite, they terminate his assignment after 2 weeks. The father still apologizes to me whenever I see him. I feel bad for the father.
Black guy- 27 yrs old. About a month ago I had to take a Metra train from the far suburbs back to the inner-city where I live(had to drop my car off to mechanic after work). Waiting over an hour for the train are just me and this black guy. I start eating my lunch, a beautiful prosciutto,provolone, and capicola sandwich. The guy just starts talking to me out of the blue about life in general. Relationships, the streets, etc. He tells me he needs work to support his girls 3 kids who are not his. He says he's an ex-con who never has any luck, and can't get a break. After we talk and I get the feeling he is for real, I tell him this is his lucky day. I call my wife right there, and put him on the phone with her. She tells him what he needs to do. She has him go in the very next day for an interview. I tell him this his chance to change everything around, "this is your opportunity, who knows where this could lead" I tell him. He agrees and on the whole train ride back to the city is thanking me. I tell him to dress appropriately for the interview to make a good impression. The next night when I get home from work I ask her how it went. She says he came there wearing sweat pants with no i.d., no resume, no nothing. I ask her to try and help him to ignor the backgound check, she agrees. The next day he comes in again,she stays late training him on how to put together a proper resume. He was supposed to bring the resume in on the third day and do some testing. He didn't show, didn't call. Calls a week later giving some typical "drama" excuse. Needless to say, his chance is gone.
Mexican guy- young 20's. I didn't know this guy, but my wife tells me the story because of how furious she ways at him. This kid goes into her office begging for a job. Telling the sob story of he got a baby and girlfriend to support, says he's been out of work for a couple years. My wife helps him. Hooks him up with a 4 month assignment at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago, starting at $14/hr. First day, the kid is late and shows up to work in jeans with an earring on. My wife is furious, she had told him that he had to be professional at this job- " It's The Mexican Consulate, for crying out loud" I remember her saying.Anyways, long and short of it is he is constantly late, a couple no-shows(he said his baby was hit by a car) and to add insult to injury, when my wife sends an assistant to terminate him he steals a laptop computer that was provided to him because of the assignment, he said that he was robbed on the way home.
Indian guy- mid- 20's. Not born here. Been in US about 10 years. I am a truck driver. I was getting out of my truck on the northside of he city last year when this kid comes walking up to me. He asks if they were hiring at my place of employment for dockworkers. I told him that in fact they laid off 25 dockworkers and 20 drivers. So we talked for a bit about some things,he told me he couldn't find work anywhere, I gave him some tips and then he walked away. As soon as he got about half block away, I ran after him. I caught up to him and gave him my wife's work number and told him to call her the next day. He said he would. I got home that night and told her to expect a call from this guy. Not only did he call, but he has turned out to be one of the BEST workers that her company has. He is such a good worker that they make sure when one of his assignments ends, they start him on another right away without any breaks. I am so proud of that young man.

The moral of these "REAL" life stories is that someone who isn't even born in this country appreciates when a door is opened up to him. He knows how to walk through. Whereas the 3 idiots who were born here are unappreciative and stupid. They seem to be like many who think that opportunity is a birthright in this country. It is not! You have to grab and hold onto an opportunity when you get it, and don't you dare tell me for one minute that not all underprivileged get opportunities. My wife tells me countless numbers of stories of people that just DON'T want to work(all races). That's because of this countries welfare state of mind. Anytime you just give something to someone, without them having earned it, they will never appreciate it. EVER!

[Black John]

I think what you meant to shout was "WE ARE THE 99%"