Angmar: Yea or Nay

[Colonial1.1]

Okay, fans of film, fans of book, and fans of everything else Lord of the Rings-related, here's a question: Would you like the option to restore Angmar using the Orcs of Gundabad faction, following a bit of an update to them? It'd be like the evil opposite of Eriador, and their option of restoring themselves as the Kingdom of Arnor, complete with new and unique units.

[GueulEclator]

YES!
Angmar should be a melting pot of everything that is evil in middle earth (like said in the books, the witch king created a nation with orcs, wargs, trolls , evil men and other evil creatures.
Angmar could be a faction with very well equiped armies which would oppose it the the relative primitiveness of the mordor and misty mountains armies. It could have orcs, trolls , primitive rudhaur men, powerful and advanced evil men , wargs and wolves.

PS: And how can i vote on polls : it says you may not vote and this poll.

[Papine]

One of the main condition to re-create Angmar, without too-much lore-rape, would be to wait after the Arnor reemergence. After all Angmar was created in the first place to destroy the Kingdom of Arnor. Following this idea, it wouldn't be more out-of-lore to have Angmar during the war of the ring than to recreate Arnor before the fall of Sauron and the creation of the Reunited Kingdom.

[GueulEclator]

One of the main condition to re-create Angmar, without too-much lore-rape, would be to wait after the Arnor reemergence. After all Angmar was created in the first place to destroy the Kingdom of Arnor. Following this idea, it wouldn't be more out-of-lore to have Angmar during the war of the ring than to recreate Arnor before the fall of Sauron and the creation of the Reunited Kingdom.

Great idea, also the witch king could also return to his former kingdom after it has reformed.

[Dutch-Balrog]

And how could this be done? There already is an emerging faction and AFAIK there can only be 1.

[GueulEclator]

I've heard that there was a way to do more than 1 reunification and that someone made a submod about it (i think there's even more than one reunification possible in samedi's compilation)

[Withwnar]

If it's a vote for having it included in vanilla TATW then "no".

If it's a vote for somebody to make a submod then ... well, I don't see the point of having a poll. Anyone who would vote no just wouldn't use it.

[smoesville]

The kalmar union can only be used once (in this case for Arnor). Another option would be the emergence of Angmar as a separate faction like the mongols. It would mean it could be triggered by the emergence of Arnor as a direct act by Sauron to counter the growing threat to his power in the north.

PS
1700 posts!

PPS
So in other words no to restoring it from Gundabad but yes to having it emerge as a separate faction after Arnor emerges. A horde in fact bursting from the north 10-15 turns after it returns. The witch king can be scripted to leave Mordor and start as the leader.

[Emperor of Hell]

The kalmar union can only be used once (in this case for Arnor). Another option would be the emergence of Angmar as a separate faction like the mongols. It would mean it could be triggered by the emergence of Arnor as a direct act by Sauron to counter the growing threat to his power in the north.

PS
1700 posts!

PPS
So in other words no to restoring it from Gundabad but yes to having it emerge as a separate faction after Arnor emerges. A horde in fact bursting from the north 10-15 turns after it returns. The witch king can be scripted to leave Mordor and start as the leader.

Kalmar union can be used multiple times, it's just some commands to activate new units, change the banner, change some strat models

[Santeri]

Have to ad: if you really want some uniqueness for OoMM and OoG I would suggest script for uniting them when certain conditions are met.

[Pinkie Pie]

I vote yes if it is a horde

[Khay]

As i said in an other post, i'm a firm supporter of a revamp of OoG, which doesn't work great to me, into something giving more space to units coming from the evil men of Rhudaur, and giving more of a sense of an active, quite logical, counter from Sauron to the fictionnal reemergence of Eriador and later Arnor under the command of Aragorn, instead than just a bunch of flea-bitten half-savage orcs from the mountains.
To make space in terms of use for these new units we could push some of the already existing units from OoG to OotMM which suffer as well from a roster not in line with the more recent ones both in term of interest and diversity, which would bring some welcome complexity to this faction as well. As a very personnal suggestion, i would be interested in seeing the Gundabad faction changed both visualy and in terms of gameplay by making them more of a balanced mix of evil men and orcs, more in the 50/50 line than the 85/15 ratio like Isengard, and eventually with new gameplay elements coming from the inherent difficulty for a general to raise and maintain troops so differents in such high number. This way they wouldn't be "just another orc faction".

However i'm not a huge fan of the idea of a "reemergence" objective for them like for Arnor, simply because, it looks unlikely to me than someday Sauron goes see the With-King and says something like "Hey, mate, remember when you used to control Angmar and stuff? Ruining the life of those pesky humans? Haha, mate, that sure was good time! It would be good if you could go back to Carn Dum and try to make it all cool like it was, again". Sauron would not give a damn imho to recreate Angamr the way it was, he wouldn't see any glory or self contained objective in the reemergence of a powerful evil kingdom up North, like it is for Arnor in the eyes of Aragorn, he would just see them as a tool, a powerful one, a scary one, to break Eriador before they become too much of a problem. There is a strong difference between Sauron willing to see a powerful force in the North, and willing to see Angmar back. And i don't think he's a very nostalgic dude.

[GueulEclator]

As i said in an other post, i'm a firm supporter of a revamp of OoG, which doesn't work great to me, into something giving more space to units coming from the evil men of Rhudaur, and giving more of a sense of an active, quite logical, counter from Sauron to the fictionnal reemergence of Eriador and later Arnor under the command of Aragorn, instead than just a bunch of flea-bitten half-savage orcs from the mountains.
To make space in terms of use for these new units we could push some of the already existing units from OoG to OotMM which suffer as well from a roster not in line with the more recent ones both in term of interest and diversity, which would bring some welcome complexity to this faction as well. As a very personnal suggestion, i would be interested in seeing the Gundabad faction changed both visualy and in terms of gameplay by making them more of a balanced mix of evil men and orcs, more in the 50/50 line than the 85/15 ratio like Isengard, and eventually with new gameplay elements coming from the inherent difficulty for a general to raise and maintain troops so differents in such high number. This way they wouldn't be "just another orc faction".

However i'm not a huge fan of the idea of a "reemergence" objective for them like for Arnor, simply because, it looks unlikely to me than someday Sauron goes see the With-King and says something like "Hey, mate, remember when you used to control Angmar and stuff? Ruining the life of those pesky humans? Haha, mate, that sure was good time! It would be good if you could go back to Carn Dum and try to make it all cool like it was, again". Sauron would not give a damn imho to recreate Angamr the way it was, he wouldn't see any glory or self contained objective in the reemergence of a powerful evil kingdom up North, like it is for Arnor in the eyes of Aragorn, he would just see them as a tool, a powerful one, a scary one, to break Eriador before they become too much of a problem. There is a strong difference between Sauron willing to see a powerful force in the North, and willing to see Angmar back. And i don't think he's a very nostalgic dude.

Yeah you're right. Although I think that in order to defeat arnor (a kingdom that was even more powerful than Gondor), angmar had just more than stinky rhudaurian and savage orcs. So angmar units (orcs and human) should look more 'advanced' than the orc of the misty units. So they should look more 'advanced' in comparaison to other evil faction (a bit like high elves look way more advanced than Dale or Rohan). That is way I like the idea of several HEAVY armored evil that could like evil Anorian evil elves (human version). And also add some evil creatures.
They would be the the ''high elves'' of evil (even if there would be no elves in their army)

[Agamaran]

Yes, but only if the emergence script was tied with Arnor's.

The Witch-realm of Angmar existed only to harass Arnor. With it destroyed, there was no reason for the Witch-king to remain and build his kingdom up again when it had served its purpose.

In TATW, Eriador can become Arnor once again, but it seems the enemy is none the wiser to play the same tactic. Instead the dirty orcs of Gundabad stay as the rag-tag dirty orcs of Gundabad.

I made this suggestion a year ago: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...29#post8724729

So the way it should work is that when Eriador emerges as Arnor, a script should automatically upgrade Gundabad to Angmar, and vice versa (because how fair would it be if you were playing as Gundabad/Angmar and all you had as a close opponent was the rag-tag Eriador militia?).

Personally I'm just a fan of trying to add something to the evil factions other than just a copy pasta of the infamous Orc factions that no one really likes to play.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

No!

Someday maybe as an additional feature. But for now as I see it, there are more important things to be taken care of.

[Dimppa]

Yes, but only if the emergence script was tied with Arnor's.

I agree with u in that

[Mathieu Of Belgium]

I made this suggestion a year ago: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...29#post8724729

I especialy like your idea about the barrow wights, dead Arnorian warriors who raised from the dead to fight the same kingdom they once defended
the irony :p

[Hallow]

I voted no, mainly because I want this game to be as close to the lore as possible without damaging gameplay, and it does that without having a restored Angmar in it.

On the other hand, if restoring Angmar was something that OOG could do in a similar fashion to what Eriador does and if it would NEVER EVER EVER EVER happen if the AI controlled OOG then yeah sure why not.

[Gallus]

Yeah you're right. Although I think that in order to defeat arnor (a kingdom that was even more powerful than Gondor)

Where did you get that from? The armies of Gondor defeated Angmar!

[Dwarven Berserker]

Where did you get that from? The armies of Gondor defeated Angmar!

If I'm correct, angmar was defeated by a combined force of Gondorian and elven troops. So that still doesn't say Gondor on it's own could have beaten Angmar