Pikemen begin with guard state?

**kuo0426** · December 13, 2011, 09:28 AM

I just found this thread :
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...lt_melee_state

I was so excited that I can set my pikemen as original M2TW.

But soon I got frustrated, because I can't even find this line "default_melee_state" which is referred to pikemen in the descr_formation_ai.txt.

Should I add something manually?

Could anyone you help me or upload the formations_ai file for me as example?

Thankyou!

**Taiji** · December 13, 2011, 09:54 AM

There's info at the top of the file:

;
; This file describes the unit group formation templates, any number of group formations can be specified
; these templates are used to give a group of units a formation, the units available in the group may not
; totally fit the template in which case a best-fit is determined when the formation is created
;
; Formation block positions can either be specified with a relative normalised (x,z) or they can be specified
; relative to another formation block (when specifying in this manner rotation CANNOT be given)
; a formation must be described entirely in one method or the other
;
;
; formation the name given to this formation template
;
; formation purposes hints to ai for using this formation
;
; ai_priority hint to the ai, denotes priority of using this template
;
; BLOCK SPEC
;
; min_units <VALUE> minimum number of units block can have
; max_units <VALUE> maximum number of units block can have
; not_general this block cannot contain the general unit
; unit_type specifies units that can be allocated to the block
; either : -
; any
; phalanx
; non_phalanx_spear
; chanting_screeching
; ranged_missile_infantry
; elephants
; heavy_chariots
; pilum_infantry
; general_unit
; <UNIT_CLASS> <UNIT_CATEGORY> <PRIORITY>
; the priority dictates the order of assigning different unit types
; a priority of zero means that type will only ever be assigned to this block
; to fulfill block minimums
; default_melee_state <OPTIONAL> the melee state that will be assigned to units
; in the formation
; unit_formation the formation the units within this block will be in (wedge, square, ...)
; unit_density either loose or close
; min_unit_width minimum unit width in men
; max_unit_width maximum unit width in men
; block_formation the formation to organise the block into (square, column, line)
; normalised_pos (x,z) position relative to the center of the template (in normalised coords)
; normalised_rot rotation in degress relative to the orientation of the template
; block_relative_pos b x z (x,z) position (in metres) relative to formation block b
; inter_unit_spacing distance to space units (in metres)
; priority dictates the order in which units are assigned to the block

To set a block to guard mode use 'default_melee_state defend'.

But it was RTW not M2TW that had this as default IIRC. So if you're after something you remember from M2TW then I think you'll be disappointed.

**kuo0426** · December 13, 2011, 10:45 AM

Taiji:

I feel so embarrassed that my English is too poor to understand what you are trying to teach me.

This is the descr_formations_ai.txt that I downloaded it from Xeryx.(please check the attached file)

I search the key words "default_melee_state" but all lines have already set as "default_melee_state defend".

Thankyou for your helping.

**Taiji** · December 14, 2011, 08:03 AM

You are going to need to explain what you want - I have no idea so far.

By the way I wouldn't use pikes in guard state, it messes them up too badly.

**kuo0426** · December 14, 2011, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Taiji

You are going to need to explain what you want - I have no idea so far.

By the way I wouldn't use pikes in guard state, it messes them up too badly.

I want to make all pike units in game use the guard mode as a default , just like in the vanilla game.

**Taiji** · December 14, 2011, 10:06 AM

If you want something formation related from vanilla then why don't you use the vanilla formations?

Just delete your descr_formations_ai.txt and you will be using vanilla. If it doesn't work then you will know it isn't vanilla stuff that you want.

If you want to add 'default_melee_state defend' to your existing formation blocks then... Umm just do it

You can see where the code needs adding by reading the top of the file and noting the order in which the different elements of coding are explained. Plus in that file you uploaded there are examples using this code.

I guess the tricky thing might be knowing which formation the AI defaults to. This is set in config_ai_battle.xml:

Code:

        <attack-battlegroup>
.....
			<formation>
				<easy>ai_triple_missiles_in_front</easy>
                <medium>ai_triple_missiles_in_front</medium>
                <hard>ai_triple_missiles_in_front</hard>
                <very_hard>ai_triple_missiles_in_front</very_hard>
			</formation>
        </attack-battlegroup>

So you can see it's ai_triple_missiles_in_front in vanilla.

**Valiant Champion** · January 17, 2012, 10:02 PM

it makes sense that the guard mode for spearmen units by default has been changed by something in the kingdoms folder, but what?

Neither formation file has default melee state added anywhere in them. The option exists but is not used in either vanilla or kingdoms.

Also doesn't default melee state set an entire block to either guard mode or attack mode and not a certian unit class specifically?

So the question is what in each of the kingdoms folders changed the guard mode by default for spear/pike/ halberd units?

I think the issue merits some serious attention as it gives modders a wider selection of options in how to use spear units in their mods, or how the AI will use spearmen in a mod.

**alexgold** · January 20, 2012, 06:24 AM

that's right. before in tha vanila pikemen started in guard mode but later in kingdoms SOMETHING in the kingdoms files changed it. it surely isn't the descr_formations_ai.txt or the edu because i've looked at both of these files both in the vanila and kingdoms and there is NO DIFFERENCE in point of guard mode between these 2 files. i've tryed asking the game producers CA about the problem but the guys couldn't care less as i didn't even get a response. if more people are interested in this issue i think we should start posting this question on the CA site or anyway let these guys from the CA know about us being stuck with this issue. in my opinion this is the only way to make pikemen start with guard mode by default just like in the vanila game. wouldn't it be a good idea also to respectfully ask someone important from twc centre to send a mail to someone from the CA and put forward this problem, because he wouild stand a better chance than us to get a response?

if anyone still has any doubt about the problem this is it cristal clear: how to make ONLY pikemen(pikemen= spear-wall/phalanx capable units) start any combat with guard mode turned on as a default. i need this because we could then mode pikemen to act more realisticaly and more important STOP THEIR GRAVITY CENTRE SHIFTING ERRATICALLY AND ENDING UP WITH THE "PHALANX" POINTING PIKES IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION TO WHERE THE FIGHT IS?

for any doubts of what this bug is play a custom battle in any kingdom based mod or even the unmodified kingdoms campaigns use these troop: AI: - general and 4 units of dismounted feudal knights
you: - general 4 units of heavy pike militia
strategy: 1) put your pikes in a line in front of your general
2) start battle and let the AI come to you, DO NOT DO ANYTHING JUST LET THE BATTLE GO ON WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING.
3) you should see that after a while your "phalanx" has turned thir backs at the enemy and you should recognize this by the row of lowered spears at the back of your unit while the enemy is engaging them in the front.

so please help me in geting a response from the CA because i hate this bug from all my heart.

**Taiji** · January 20, 2012, 10:59 AM

Why all this fuss when I've already explained how to get it if you want it?

Read my posts maybe, there's a thought.

**alexgold** · January 20, 2012, 12:44 PM

sorry taiji but i believe that you've told us how to put defeult_melee_state defend in the descr_formations_ai.txt. but this will make all the units in that block be in defence which is not good for the AI. we're talking about different things me and you.

**Taiji** · January 20, 2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by alexgold

sorry taiji but i believe that you've told us how to put defeult_melee_state defend in the descr_formations_ai.txt.

Yeah, because that's the only way to do it.

Originally Posted by alexgold

but this will make all the units in that block be in defence which is not good for the AI.

You have seen this? What happened exactly?

Originally Posted by alexgold

we're talking about different things me and you.

You aren't talking about pike units turning their backs to the enemy while fighting?

Then what are you talking about?