Were Norse War Clerics real?

[Kaiser Christoph XVIII]

These are one of my favorite units in the game but I am not so sure if they were real or not. It would be nice if they were, whats cooler then an angry scandinavian priest on a horse with a mace.

[Aeratus]

While not actually Norse, the Bayeux Tapestry shows a Norman war cleric with a mace.

[Diocle]

While not actually Norse, the Bayeux Tapestry shows a Norman war cleric with a mace.

That man is the Archibishop Odo brother of William, look at the wonderful images of the battle by Angus MacBride on the Osprey book: 'The Normans' Elite Series, 9.
William is depicted while taking off his helmet, to demonstrate to the troops he was still alive, and Odo is clearly different compared to the other Norman knights, because had this strange great mace and a different armor probably mail covered with leather. If you look at the figure in the image you posted, you'll see the word "ODO" on the left over the helmet of the Archibishop.

Forgetting! The Mace: If I remember correctly, I read in a book, that the Bishop use the Big Wood Mace because a priest cannot spill christian blood (but break the heads with a big mace yes! Please note the sublime Catholic hypocrisy!) so a mace is a more.....appropriate weapon to kill the Christians Saxons!

[Aymer de Valence]

Normans were a Scandinavian tribe i believe (Norman meaning North-Man), so i guess it can link to it being truthful for the Norse

[13lackGu4rd]

Actually the Normans were originally Sicilians who later migrated to Northern France(Normandy of today). It has nothing to do with the Norse, who are the North Men as you put it.

[Silverheart]

Actually the Normans were originally Sicilians who later migrated to Northern France(Normandy of today). It has nothing to do with the Norse, who are the North Men as you put it.

It´s the other way around
Norman litterally means "north man" - in every single nordic language, to be specific, and most of the languages that was influenced by them.
Normandy was founded as an independent viking colony after a viking invasion of France coerced the king to give the invaders a piece of land in exchange for peace (Normandiet meaning Northmans´ land).
Later it became an official part of France, although it remained completely independent.
The kingdom of Sicily was greatly strengthened by vikings who emigrated there from Normandy after two viking chieftains took control there - hence the origin of the "Norman Knights".
So it was the other way around - if anything, it was vikings from Normandy that founded Sicily, not the other way around.


As for the OP, yes, there were actually War Clerics in Danish and later christian nordic forces.
One famous example was Absalon, who fought in crusades in the Baltic, and founded the city of Köpenhamn/Copenhagen, which is the capital of Denmark today.
As Aeratus demonstrated, the Bayeux tapestry also reveals that nordic christian priests did in fact ride to war with the soldiers - in fact, William the conqueror had one such war cleric as an advisor in his personal retinue.
Though, it has been embellished in the game of course
War Clerics did probably not ride with "a retinue to rival a king" but more likely alone or among the knights, probably with a few bodyguards assigned to them.

[Mhaedros]

It´s the other way around
Norman litterally means "north man" - in every single nordic language, to be specific, and most of the languages that was influenced by them.
Normandy was founded as an independent viking colony after a viking invasion of France coerced the king to give the invaders a piece of land in exchange for peace (Normandiet meaning Northmans´ land).
Later it became an official part of France, although it remained completely independent.
The kingdom of Sicily was greatly strengthened by vikings who emigrated there from Normandy after two viking chieftains took control there - hence the origin of the "Norman Knights".
So it was the other way around - if anything, it was vikings from Normandy that founded Sicily, not the other way around.


As for the OP, yes, there were actually War Clerics in Danish and later christian nordic forces.
One famous example was Absalon, who fought in crusades in the Baltic, and founded the city of Köpenhamn/Copenhagen, which is the capital of Denmark today.
As Aeratus demonstrated, the Bayeux tapestry also reveals that nordic christian priests did in fact ride to war with the soldiers - in fact, William the conqueror had one such war cleric as an advisor in his personal retinue.
Though, it has been embellished in the game of course
War Clerics did probably not ride with "a retinue to rival a king" but more likely alone or among the knights, probably with a few bodyguards assigned to them.

Exactly, except the underlined part. Not in finnish

[Parzival2211]

It´s the other way around
Norman litterally means "north man" - in every single nordic language, to be specific, and most of the languages that was influenced by them.
Normandy was founded as an independent viking colony after a viking invasion of France coerced the king to give the invaders a piece of land in exchange for peace (Normandiet meaning Northmans´ land).
Later it became an official part of France, although it remained completely independent.
The kingdom of Sicily was greatly strengthened by vikings who emigrated there from Normandy after two viking chieftains took control there - hence the origin of the "Norman Knights".
So it was the other way around - if anything, it was vikings from Normandy that founded Sicily, not the other way around.


As for the OP, yes, there were actually War Clerics in Danish and later christian nordic forces.
One famous example was Absalon, who fought in crusades in the Baltic, and founded the city of Köpenhamn/Copenhagen, which is the capital of Denmark today.
As Aeratus demonstrated, the Bayeux tapestry also reveals that nordic christian priests did in fact ride to war with the soldiers - in fact, William the conqueror had one such war cleric as an advisor in his personal retinue.
Though, it has been embellished in the game of course
War Clerics did probably not ride with "a retinue to rival a king" but more likely alone or among the knights, probably with a few bodyguards assigned to them.

One of the most informative posts I have read in a while +rep.
Knew the 1st half and could add that the Viking warlord who settled in Normandy was called Rollo or Rolf (differing written records) in - iIrc - the last decade of the 1st millenium AD.

[Silverheart]

Exactly, except the underlined part. Not in finnish

Right, every Scandinavian language
+ Icelandic.

One of the most informative posts I have read in a while +rep.
Knew the 1st half and could add that the Viking warlord who settled in Normandy was called Rollo or Rolf (differing written records) in - iIrc - the last decade of the 1st millenium AD.

Yeah, that´s Gånge-Rolf, or Rolf the Ganger.
I wasn´t sure of the name, which is why I didn´t mention it.

Though I would like to remember that there were two warlords (who were brothers) that were active there as well - or maybe I´m thinking of those two who tried to plunder Rome, and accidentally landed a little too far north and attacked another city
(it was a clever strategy, though - too bad they couldn´t use it a second time on the real target )

[Peacy]

It´s the other way around
Norman litterally means "north man" - in every single nordic language, to be specific, and most of the languages that was influenced by them.
Normandy was founded as an independent viking colony after a viking invasion of France coerced the king to give the invaders a piece of land in exchange for peace (Normandiet meaning Northmans´ land).
Later it became an official part of France, although it remained completely independent.
The kingdom of Sicily was greatly strengthened by vikings who emigrated there from Normandy after two viking chieftains took control there - hence the origin of the "Norman Knights".
So it was the other way around - if anything, it was vikings from Normandy that founded Sicily, not the other way around.


As for the OP, yes, there were actually War Clerics in Danish and later christian nordic forces.
One famous example was Absalon, who fought in crusades in the Baltic, and founded the city of Köpenhamn/Copenhagen, which is the capital of Denmark today.
As Aeratus demonstrated, the Bayeux tapestry also reveals that nordic christian priests did in fact ride to war with the soldiers - in fact, William the conqueror had one such war cleric as an advisor in his personal retinue.
Though, it has been embellished in the game of course
War Clerics did probably not ride with "a retinue to rival a king" but more likely alone or among the knights, probably with a few bodyguards assigned to them.

True ^ ^ here in Italy ( Especially in the south) there are a lot of Statues, Castles and ruin once of Norman property.

Thanks for all the other information to you all ! this is a very intresting topic.

[PrestigeX]

I think the reason they are depicted as wielding Maces , and a Club in the Bayeux Tapestry, is because being Priests they are not supposed to shed blood -- and using a blunt force weapon would keep them safe from breaking this rule.

Might be wrong, but I heard it somewhere - one of those BBC (Bloodly Blimey Chap) Documentaries about the Bayeux Tapestry.

[TWWolfe]

yep, clerics who went to war loved the mace, because it allowed them to avoid the rule of not shedding blood with the edge of a sword.

[46thCharlemagne]

Coincidentally I just did a lot of reading up on both the history of England, and the history of Denmark, focusing mostly on the medieval period. Definitely the Normans were descendants of Vikings, who later conquered England, Sicily, crusaded, etc.

I am currently playing a Denmark campaign. Just love those mace-wielding, plate-armored, horse-riding, warmongering priests, especially their unique helms (the ones with some gold to them).

[RollingWave]

Before the 12th century, Clerics and Priest were often nobles assigned by Kings, so the difference between them and other nobles were often thin at best, (and that's also why most of the rules of priesthood were often badly kepted. most of them banged just as many ladies if not more than other nobles for example...)

This began to change as the Church began to try to wrestle control of this back from the Kings and appoint REAL priests from the Church system, but the development was uneven obviously, in some places like Scandanavia the process took a bit longer.

And even after that, Priests were often subject to considerable fiefs just like any other big noblemens, which was why in times of war they were often still a factor. Though as time went on they increasingly are less involved in direct fighting.

[lolIsuck]

I thought the Norman kingdom of Sicily was only established in 1060 or something.

[Avatar]

I thought the Norman kingdom of Sicily was only established in 1060 or something.

1068 in fact. They were a busy bunch of invaders during the latter half of the 11th century, to be sure.

[Shasqua]

Bishops, especially in the Holy Roman Empire, often did go to war, as they often held large chunks of land and were political players in their own right. However, there's no evidence they used only maces to avoid shedding blood, and in any case maces and pretty much any blunt object most certainly can shed blood. I should know; I was hit in the face by the backswing of a golf club, bled a lot, and ended up with 11 stitches. Yes, I was standing right behind the guy (thought it was a safe distance). I was pretty young at the time...

[Aeratus]

I suppose you're right that any mace would shed blood, such as these ones:

[TWWolfe]

Actually, I think the prohibition is against shedding blood with a sword. they might be using them because "well, it only says i can't shed blood with a sword. No mention against using a mace in there, now is there?"

[Shasqua]

Actually, I think the prohibition is against shedding blood with a sword. they might be using them because "well, it only says i can't shed blood with a sword. No mention against using a mace in there, now is there?"

I've heard of the rule, but I've never seen any evidence for it. It seems to be a Dungeons and Dragons thing.