Illegal immigration facts website

[Gaius Baltar]

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

Some current numbers on illegal immigration in the US.

[Erik]

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

Some current numbers on illegal immigration in the US.

Ah, I love politically motivates sites (read "Our Goals") who publish facts and figures.
That way you know you wil only get to see the figures that you want to see (if you agree with their motives of course)

[danzig]

Yes their goals are so radical and offensive!
To fight economic injustice, it urged reduction in immigration numbers that are now so high as to harm the most vulnerable American workers and their families. - Bastards!

To achieve an environmentally sustainable society, it urged reducing immigration numbers to a level that will allow the U.S. population to stabilize. - How could they be so cruel?!

So their goal is to lower immigration to a level the US can better absorb the people into society nothing about cutting off immigration, nothing about kicking people out really just stablizing the growth. Right under Our Goals is an article discussing why its wrong to blame or attack the immigrates themselves for these problems.

[Erik]

Yes their goals are so radical and offensive!

I didn't say that.
I was just pointing out that they were biased.
Biased in the right direction maybe, but you shouldn't take their "facts and figures" as the truth.

So their goal is to lower immigration to a level the US can better absorb the people into society nothing about cutting off immigration, nothing about kicking people out really just stablizing the growth. Right under Our Goals is an article discussing why its wrong to blame or attack the immigrates themselves for these problems.

Yes, that's their goal.
Just pointing out that their goal is NOT to provide you with accurate data as you might expect after reading their name "numbersusa.com"

[removeduser_487563287433]

You may think statistics will solve any argument, even if they are actually genuine. However, for the case of illegal immigration the right will always claim that illegal immigrants are hardly on the record (irrelevant for estimates, but try and tell them that) and the left will say it is being presented in a biased and racist way, which is often not altogether incorrect.

Since I live in a country a fraction the size of yours with roughly three or four times the population density, I think it's rather rude for you to be complaining about immigration in the first place.

[Erik]

Y
Since I live in a country a fraction the size of yours with roughly three or four times the population density, I think it's rather rude for you to be complaining about immigration in the first place.

What country is that? Monaco?
(I'm Dutch if you didn't realize)

[Gaius Baltar]

I am certainly open to more "accurate" statistics. Perhaps you could point them out for us.

[removeduser_487563287433]

What country is that? Monaco?
(I'm Dutch if you didn't realize)

The United Kingdom is roughly 245,000km2, and has a population density of 243/km2. Compared to the USA's 9,600,000km2 and a density of 30/km2. Jesus, it's actually worse than I originally thought. Added upon the fact that the USA is the world's leading economic power and they're complaining about Mexicans taking their jobs! Jesus, give these guys some perspective.

[danzig]

The United Kingdom is roughly 245,000km2, and has a population density of 243/km2. Compared to the USA's 9,600,000km2 and a density of 30/km2. Jesus, it's actually worse than I originally thought. Added upon the fact that the USA is the world's leading economic power and they're complaining about Mexicans taking their jobs! Jesus, give these guys some perspective.

And talk about ignorance of the problem, the inflow of illegals is large and all its doing is getting larger. You'll notice alot of people dont talk about the problem now but the problem 20-30 years from now if no changes are made. Border Patrol is reporting 20% increase in traffic across the border since October and you can probably blame alot of this on the fact that people believe US will cave in offer amnesty again. The fact you dont view it as a problem really means squat as you dont live in this country. A country is entitled to the right to control the FLOW of people into its borders...no one is saying kick the people out, no one is saying anything racist but no country can be expected to tolerate what we have now especially in this day and age, which is pretty much an open border.

[Garbarsardar]

I wonder how many of the anti-immigration activists are currently boycotting all companies employing directly or indirectly (through their providers) illegal immigrants. Patriotism usually stops at Wal-Marts door...

[removeduser_487563287433]

And talk about ignorance of the problem, the inflow of illegals is large and all its doing is getting larger. You'll notice alot of people dont talk about the problem now but the problem 20-30 years from now if no changes are made. Border Patrol is reporting 20% increase in traffic across the border since October and you can probably blame alot of this on the fact that people believe US will cave in offer amnesty again. The fact you dont view it as a problem really means squat as you dont live in this country. A country is entitled to the right to control the FLOW of people into its borders...no one is saying kick the people out, no one is saying anything racist but no country can be expected to tolerate what we have now especially in this day and age, which is pretty much an open border.

What I'm saying is that every developed western country is suffering problems with immigration, and that the USA is almost luxurially equipped to deal with it. The population of the USA is horribly vocal about an issue that they do not understand, nor particularly suffer from. It is your ignorance to suggest that the USA has a chronic problem. What you need is a holiday in Calais.

I doubt you understand what that implies. If you're not lazy, you'll look it up.

[Sidmen]

Well, the fact of the matter is that you realy can't get accurate statistics on illegal immigration. Because, well they are illegal. Not many people tell us that they're comming into the country when they do it by illegal means.

However, you can assume that because 10million illegal immigrants ate boycotting us, that they have come in over the last 40 years (they wern't born here, otherwise they wouldn't be illegal) so that points us to an average of 250,000 illegal immigrants come in every year.

@Ferrets, you can't realy count population density, we have huge ass deserts taking up a thiird of the country. and another half of the country is taken up by agriculture/mountans.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well, the fact of the matter is that you realy can't get accurate statistics on illegal immigration. Because, well they are illegal. Not many people tell us that they're comming into the country when they do it by illegal means.

Oh man, just too sweet. I told you, did I not?

[Gaius Baltar]

For fairness, Im am listing a few websites dealing with (illegal) immigrants rights. Notice the brackets, legal immigrants would have no use for these services.

http://www.afsc.org/immigrants-rights/

http://www.cccaction.org/cccaction/april10_index.html

http://www.farmworkers.org/sinfreng.html

[removeduser_487563287433]

For fairness, Im am listing a few websites dealing with (illegal) immigrants rights. Notice the brackets, legal immigrants would have no use for these services.

http://www.afsc.org/immigrants-rights/

http://www.cccaction.org/cccaction/april10_index.html

http://www.farmworkers.org/sinfreng.html

Personally, I hope I will never have use for the right to a trial by an impartial jury, regardless, I would not surrender that right because I never expect to use it.

[Gaius Baltar]

As it stands now, illegal immigrants in the US are only guilty of a misdemeanor, which usually involves a ticket and a summons.

Pending legislation will change that of course, but it is unlikely, in most cases, to result in any incarceration or trial.

[removeduser_487563287433]

As it stands now, illegal immigrants in the US are only guilty of a misdemeanor, which usually involves a ticket and a summons.

Pending legislation will change that of course, but it is unlikely, in most cases, to result in any incarceration or trial.

Why in the name of tap-dancing Christ would you think that that kind of pressure would be a good thing for the already disgracefully overcrowded American prison system?

[Hjalmar]

You know, as long as there's significant demand for cheap Labor within the US, immigrants will come in droves to supply it.

[Gaius Baltar]

Well, thats a good question. What would you accept as "neutral". Is there such a position for this topic.

And one correction, these are all anti-illegal immigration sites.

[Gwendylyn]

Actually, the first two sites you linked were anti-immigration. They specifically stated their goals were to limit immigration except to allow immediate family members and a handful of refugees into the country. That is anti-immigration - it means a person from another country cannot get into ours unless they have family or seek asylum.

The last you posted was, correct, not anti-immigration, but anti-illegal immigration, but have a prestated opinion on guest worker amnesty, and therefore is still biased. It's just a smaller version of a lobbyist group.

All of them had extreme bias. A neutral site would be the Gallup organization, or the US census, or public opinion institutes that do not have prestated opinions, but only publishes the statistics which are later used by partisan organizations when they put their own spin on it.

When you find neutral information to support your argument, then you have a firm basis to stand on. Information from biased websites is very slippery footing.