Check consent, men (finally) told

[norma]

How can you secure consent for sex? What man or woman is going to bring a partner home and say right, are you a 100 percent sure you want to have sex?

Well the answer is all men and women should do this because its the new law. You must have consent of the other person before you engage in any sexual activity.
Like in this situation : you go for a drink you meet a girl you both get on one thing leads to another and before you know it you are on your sofa undressing: STOP. Apparently now if the woman is too drunk to know if she can agree to sex or not then you have to assume she is to drunk to consent to sex, or you could risk a rape accusation.

Its a very tricky subject a woman could meet a man go back to his place a bit drunk have sex then totally regret it or maybe even to drunk to remember all the details so what does she do? Well , she cries rape, I was drunk I know I had sex but i dont remember being asked for sex or agreeing to it so i must have been raped.
on the other hand the woman can remember being a bit drunk she can remember being asked for sex and she can remember saying, but she is raped, yet the man says well I asked her and she definitely said yes and she didn’t seem to drunk to me, then what its his word against hers.
I mean what can you do? Next, they’re going to bring out a law were you have to have written consent that’s signed by your partner.

Its a tough one.

[Garbarsardar]

You are probably refering to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4780992.stm

Ensure consent for sex, men told

The magazine and radio adverts and posters are aimed at reducing the number of sex assaults taking place when a woman is very drunk.
It comes amid low conviction rates for rape cases in England and Wales. A law change has been mooted allowing juries to decide whether a woman was too drunk to give consent.

A Home Office spokeswoman said the issue of consent was central to the Sexual Offences Act 2003, which stated that a person must agree to sex by choice and that must have the freedom and capacity to make that choice. "Giving consent is active not passive, and it's up to everyone to make sure that their partner agrees to sexual activity," she said.

Amnesty International UK said the campaign was a "step forward" but that it must form part of a wider plan to tackle low conviction rates and "a sexist blame culture". "The results of an opinion poll we commissioned last year showed that a disturbingly large proportion of the public blame women themselves for being raped," director Kate Allen said.

Actually it is not a law, but a campaign. The law still leaves that for the juries to decide. Still I prefer to see more false allegations going to court then rapists getting away on the grounds of false "consent".

[wilpuri]

Now rape really has become the woman changing her mind afterwards. :laughing:

[norma]

i didnt read that bbc site it was another site cant remember now what its called, it said it was a new law so i was miss informed from the net there, n e way its a topic worth thinkin about.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

Actually it is not a law, but a campaign. The law still leaves that for the juries to decide. Still I prefer to see more false allegations going to court then rapists getting away on the grounds of false "consent".

I agree with this but on the proviso that accused rapists can be anonymous. I have a friend who was falsely accused of rape in university, caused him a huge amount of problems (he actually got suspended from the Student Union and the Uni - he sued them and one though ). In his case he was very, very lucky, the girl's flatmate was in the flat at the time (neither my friend or the girl he was with realised this) and testified in court that it was the girl that made all the running and then changed her mind when she thought her boyfriend would find out.

I've also seen the other side where a female friend was raped while drunk, he claimed consent, she couldn't prove it, he turned up in court in a smart suit and won.

Neither good situations for anyone to be in but I don't see any good way out of it. daterape (for want of a better word) is always going to be incredibly hard to prove either way.

[Sidmen]

Isn't rape the act of sexual intercourse with one party not giving concent. If you say yes you give concent, it doesn't matter if your drunk or high or whatever else you do. If you don't want the risk don't go out drinking and looking for guys, or maybe take matters into your own hands and bring a friend and tell him/her not to let you leave with someone. Its up to you.

[the Black Prince]

s74 of the Sexual Offences Act states that
For the purposes of this Part (the act), a person consents if he agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice.


the campaign launched by the home office recently is one to promote the fact that without obtaining clear positive consent, a man can be found guilty of rape. if a woman says yes, is drunk, but isn't you know, totally and obviously ****** out of her face... then the man can reasonably assume she consented

theres a few other relevant sections regarding the law on consent, all in the same act
S1 (rape)
S75 (Presumptions of consent)
S76 (conclusive presumptions about consent)

all can be found here
Sexual Offences Act 2003


so sidman, yes, it does matter.
if you are high, or drunk, you can be regarded as not having the capacity to consent.

[Richard the Lionheart]

How can you secure consent for sex? What man or woman is going to bring a partner home and say right, are you a 100 percent sure you want to have sex?

Well the answer is all men and women should do this because its the new law. You must have consent of the other person before you engage in any sexual activity.
Like in this situation : you go for a drink you meet a girl you both get on one thing leads to another and before you know it you are on your sofa undressing: STOP. Apparently now if the woman is too drunk to know if she can agree to sex or not then you have to assume she is to drunk to consent to sex, or you could risk a rape accusation.

Its a very tricky subject a woman could meet a man go back to his place a bit drunk have sex then totally regret it or maybe even to drunk to remember all the details so what does she do? Well , she cries rape, I was drunk I know I had sex but i dont remember being asked for sex or agreeing to it so i must have been raped.
on the other hand the woman can remember being a bit drunk she can remember being asked for sex and she can remember saying, but she is raped, yet the man says well I asked her and she definitely said yes and she didn’t seem to drunk to me, then what its his word against hers.
I mean what can you do? Next, they’re going to bring out a law were you have to have written consent that’s signed by your partner.

Its a tough one.

Isn't the solution obvious enough? Don't have sex while you're drunk.

[Sidmen]

(2) The circumstances are that-

(a) any person was, at the time of the relevant act or immediately before it began, using violence against the complainant or causing the complainant to fear that immediate violence would be used against him;
(b) any person was, at the time of the relevant act or immediately before it began, causing the complainant to fear that violence was being used, or that immediate violence would be used, against another person;
(c) the complainant was, and the defendant was not, unlawfully detained at the time of the relevant act;
(d) the complainant was asleep or otherwise unconscious at the time of the relevant act;
(e) because of the complainant's physical disability, the complainant would not have been able at the time of the relevant act to communicate to the defendant whether the complainant consented;
(f) any person had administered to or caused to be taken by the complainant, without the complainant's consent, a substance which, having regard to when it was administered or taken, was capable of causing or enabling the complainant to be stupefied or overpowered at the time of the relevant act.

Ok, it only matters if you are using violence (or a threat of), If she was unable physically to say no (mute? or asleep), or if someone caused her to take drugs/ect.. before doing the act..

The law however does not apply if she was quite simply drunk, as you did not cause her to drink (hopefully) and she was still capable of saying no (her inhibitions were lowered, but that doesn't mean she can't say no).. So unless she passes out she can still be drunk..

Conclusive presumptions about consent

(1) If in proceedings for an offence to which this section applies it is proved that the defendant did the relevant act and that any of the circumstances specified in subsection (2) existed, it is to be conclusively presumed-

(a) that the complainant did not consent to the relevant act, and
(b) that the defendant did not believe that the complainant consented to the relevant act.

(2) The circumstances are that-
(a) the defendant intentionally deceived the complainant as to the nature or purpose of the relevant act;
(b) the defendant intentionally induced the complainant to consent to the relevant act by impersonating a person known personally to the complainant.

Allright, if she didn't give concent, and he thought she did its still not rape. So ladies (please, how many men are raped) be sure you actually say "NO!" quite loudly.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes, but I would rather be sexy and charming than an awkward geek. Haven't managed to rape anyone yet.

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

I seem to recall a skit on the Chappelle's Show where Chappelle had his girlfriend sign a waiver of consent before they had sex. It was pretty funny, and sure it's formal, but it just might work. :original:

[Tiwaz]

Hmm. Interesting.

My advice on this matter... Forget the easy nookie. I went for more "permanent" solution and enjoy my life with a stable human relationship. Oh yes, and we were totally sober when we met and have been more or less after that. (not surprise me being teetotaller and all but...)

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Well, isn't it obvious that it'll never work? It'll always be "She wanted sex" against "He raped me." If anything, this is worsening the situation. Now any rapist can say "She said yes to sex", for now no argument can be trusted 100%.

[Sidmen]

I do plan for a long term partner, although the problem comes when you ask "are you a virgin" they always say 'yes' then you have to go get blood samples and all that fun stuff. (I don't deal with liers)

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

folks,

nothing has actually changed as far as I know.

• It has always been the case that both partners have to consent before sex otherwise it is rape
• Very, very hard to do if both of you are drunk
• Very, very, very hard to prove one way or the other

No real change there then, it'll always come down to one partner saying 'they did say yes' and one partner saying 'they didn't say yes' and then the jury making a decision whih one they believe.

I do plan for a long term partner, although the problem comes when you ask "are you a virgin" they always say 'yes' then you have to go get blood samples and all that fun stuff. (I don't deal with liers)

how on earth does blood samples prove whether a person is a virgin (assuming they haven't previously caught an STD)?

[Sidmen]

The good part comes when you apply the fact that she has to "PROVE" that he did the act and that she said no, he only has to say she said yes. If she doesn't prove it, then he should go free.

So everyone, make sure you videotape it every time.

[Ahiga]

Well, in the vein of this topic, the Duke rape scandal has been a rather scary reminder of how loose our judicial system is and how crying wolf-rape (eeww) can still cause you a great headache even if you win and it's proven false in the end.

With no rapekit, no proof on her genitalia and only a handful of very minute bruises, a very unreliable accuser/victim and her companion who on tape says she wants to make the best of this or spin it to her advantage...and they still arrested the guy's.

[Habelo]

Haha what they gonna do? You say you asked her and she told you was ok. Then if she says that she said no ore you didnt ask what the hell are the stupid law gonna do? Its your word against her

[Sidmen]

And the courts (and everyone else) assumes she is right and you get kicked out of school/ loose your job. This actually happens.

[Habelo]

And the courts (and everyone else) assumes she is right and you get kicked out of school/ loose your job. This actually happens.

ok, can we keep this constructive please (and no dodging the censor - Tac