Late French Army

[Kaiserina Kratos]

So yeah, what is the most effective and balanced army composition for France in the very late game where gunpowder is already available? I need some of your opinions to build my army from there.

[Shasqua]

5 Pikemen, 4 Aventurier, 4 Scots Guard, 1 General's Bodyguard, 2 Basilisks, 2 French Mounted Archers, 2 Lancers. Upgrade all their armor.

Pikemen in front, 2 or 3 ranks deep. Aventuriers 2 ranks deep DIRECTLY in front of them in a pike-and-shot formation. Scots Guard behind the Pikemen. A Basilisk on either side. Both Mounted Archers on the left flank, so as to ignore the enemy's shields when you shoot them from the flank. Lancers to the flanks of the Basilisks to protect against cavalry charges. General in rear.

[Blaze of Macedon]

I'd go with 1 General, any combo of 5 upgraded noble and/or upgraded chilvaric knights (i stress the "upgraded" part - with uprgades those two have better stats than the lancers plus a shield to protect them agains arrows and bolts), 4 pikes, 4 DFK, 4 arqs and 2 scots guard. Arqs over aventuriers cause gunpowder units disregard shields and have some morale impact.

- Arqs in lose formation, two lines deep, up front
- Behind them a line of 4 pikemen and 4 DFK overlaping (so that the pikes up front protect from a frontal charge and the DFK can get support in melee from the pikes they protect in the back)
- Scots left and right, tight formation, disable skirmish mode, ready for melee if needed
- 3 Heavy cav on each wing

When fighting against musketeers or, God forbid elite musketeers (janissaries or cossacks), your arqs are cannon fodder, but at least relatively cheap cannon fodder In those cases you need to engage in melee and do it quickly. Your cav is the key, don't leave it to fight prolonged melees, charge repeatably and run your opponents into the grass.

Also, beware from enemy can with AP secondary (Teutons, Quapakulus...) or just very good melee stats (Tsars Guard).

For a siege drop the pikemen and get some cannons and maybe a couple more DCK.

[Shasqua]

Arqs have a much shorter range than Aventuriers, can't double as heavy infantry, and are very glitchy unmodded. But without mods, Chivalric Knights are probably better than Lancers, bizarrely enough.

[Blaze of Macedon]

I'm taking gunpowder over arrows and bolts any day. And i'm taking the arqs for what they are - ranged units.

The multipurpose of the Aventuriers is nice but not needed cause of the 4 DFK and the heavy can contingent.

[Kaiserina Kratos]

Thanks for giving me answers guys. One thing though, which is more cost-effective? the arqs or the aventuriers? And maybe, I would make an army with arqs and another with aventuriers to test them

[Blaze of Macedon]

Thanks for giving me answers guys. One thing though, which is more cost-effective? the arqs or the aventuriers? And maybe, I would make an army with arqs and another with aventuriers to test them

Arqs are somewhat cheaper but as i said they are pure skirmishers. Aventuriers should also be used in melee.

Both have 14 attack but don't forget that the arqs bypass shields. Aventuriers on the other hand have greater range.

So take your pick. It depends on the overall army you want to use and you feel comfortable playing with. I take France for what it is - together with Poland the best catholic heavy cav force (since both France and Poland have 2 excellent heavy knight units this gives them the opportunity to field more heavy cav units than any other western power).

[Shasqua]

I'd stick with Aventuriers. They can double as heavy infantry and have long range. Arqs are lightly armored, have little morale, and due to bugs, tend to fire relatively rarely. They are also useless at defending walls.

[Blaze of Macedon]

I'd stick with Aventuriers. They can double as heavy infantry and have long range. Arqs are lightly armored, have little morale, and due to bugs, tend to fire relatively rarely. They are also useless at defending walls.

What bugs?

They fire by row, just put them two rows deep, loose formation and you're good to go.

As for sieges - that's why the army i posted has DFK.

I also like multipurpose infantry/archers but i just don't see the need to spend money on em with France. Ottoman Infantry and Dismounted Dvor are invaluable and irreplacable when i play Russia or Turks but as i said i think you can just walk a straight path with France and make juggernaut armies based on your heavy cav and hamer and anvil your enemies into the grass...

[Shasqua]

What bugs?

They fire by row, just put them two rows deep, loose formation and you're good to go.

As for sieges - that's why the army i posted has DFK.

I also like multipurpose infantry/archers but i just don't see the need to spend money on em with France. Ottoman Infantry and Dismounted Dvor are invaluable and irreplacable when i play Russia or Turks but as i said i think you can just walk a straight path with France and make juggernaut armies based on your heavy cav and hamer and anvil your enemies into the grass...

Typically, unless you edit out the "fire by rank" attribute in the EDU, the arqs won't fire volleys if they start losing men or whatnot. In any case, they don't fire as often as they should. Remove the attribute, and they'll fire individually, which works pretty well. And with a loose formation, you'll be able to get two units of them in front of the pikes, tops. With Aventuriers, you'll be able to get 3 or so.

The whole reason I picked Scots Guard and Aventuriers over arqs and DFKs is because they can absolutely MASSACRE the enemy before they reach your lines, and once out of arrows, they can serve just as well as heavies. During sieges, I blast down the enemy's gates or walls, and if they fall back, I rapidly secure the walls, put my missile troops on them, and my infantry and HAs in front of them. They'll kill anyone who tries to force them out. If the enemy doesn't fall back, hammer them with HAs and blow multiple breaches in the walls so you can attack from different directions at once.

[Blaze of Macedon]

Typically, unless you edit out the "fire by rank" attribute in the EDU, the arqs won't fire volleys if they start losing men or whatnot. In any case, they don't fire as often as they should. Remove the attribute, and they'll fire individually, which works pretty well. And with a loose formation, you'll be able to get two units of them in front of the pikes, tops. With Aventuriers, you'll be able to get 3 or so.

The whole reason I picked Scots Guard and Aventuriers over arqs and DFKs is because they can absolutely MASSACRE the enemy before they reach your lines, and once out of arrows, they can serve just as well as heavies. During sieges, I blast down the enemy's gates or walls, and if they fall back, I rapidly secure the walls, put my missile troops on them, and my infantry and HAs in front of them. They'll kill anyone who tries to force them out. If the enemy doesn't fall back, hammer them with HAs and blow multiple breaches in the walls so you can attack from different directions at once.

I don't know, i have an ok experience with arqs. Not as good as muskets, cossacks or janissaries but they do an ok job.

And the trade off you're making is archers for melee in general - HA, Scots and Qventuriers for DFK, Noble and Chilvaric knights. It's a different army and it requires a different approach alltogether so chose whatever you are more comfi with.

I love massacarig enemies from far but not with France. Ottomans and Russia as i said before are ideal for that, not France. At least for me...

[Mhaedros]

It totally depends on how you play, I never used large cavalry armies before I tried Mongols, but after an 100% cavalry based invasion of Turkey and Egypt I learned to use it with France as well.

[PrestigeX]

I'll give a run down on what I figure to be COST EFFECTIVE late-game

Aventurier / Scots Guard ...

its not particularly effective (in my humble opinion) to use in blocks as ranged troops...You ought to use them in small supplementary divisions. 1-2 troops, alongside your Arquebusiers, or wte u like as standard Missile (for me i often go with merc xbow/merc pavise xbow for later game).

They can handle melee well so they are there to protect other missile troops.

Infantry.

You may wish to use 2-4 pikemen with 2-4 heavy infantry (DCK's, DFK's) Pikes protect a bit from cavalry, poke from behind -- heavy infantry obvious uses.

Cavalry - half Heavy, Half Mounted Archer

Use the Gendarmes as they're from Cities, and the Mounted French Archers... As france the cavalry available to choose is vast. I usually opt for 3-4 M.F.A. ,, 3-4 Gendarmes, and maybe Noble Knights/Lancers/Chiv Knights to work with the General's Bodyguard.

Artillery .. bring 2 pieces, for me I like to have good expensive cannon and a lighter cannon (basilisk, and a serpentine) -- or just 2 of whatever you want.


neways, the expensive upkeep units I keep in shorter supply 1-2 units, and the cheaper recruit/upkeep as the 'weight' 2-4 units .