Lazy Orc Halberd units

[Actionman]

Does anyone make much use of the Orc heavy halberd units? Because my word, they move SLOW.

I seriously doubt they could march from one corner of the battlemap to the other before the battle timer runs out. They march about half the speed of normal units, removing the spear wall formation enables them to run, but still very slowly.

Rant over, should they be marching at half speed?

[grinder]

I guess it is working as intended. In the export_descr_unit.txt they have move_speed_mod 0.6 (in case of goblin halberdiers) so slightly above half the usual speed. You could increase this value to whatever you think is more appropriate or remove it (effectively setting the value to 1.0 - standard speed) if they are too slow for your liking.
But you would have to start a new campaign for the change to take effect.

[mattttb]

But you would have to start a new campaign for the change to take effect.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that when you change a .txt file, that doesn't alter game scripts, the change is implemented immediately and requires no new campaign to take effect. I used to fiddle around with unit/building stats all the time with the game open, and all you had to do was exit the campaign and reload it

[Actionman]

They move with acceptable speed when you take them out of guard mode.

Actually, I never checked for guard mode, assumed it was off for all units by default.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that when you change a .txt file, that doesn't alter game scripts, the change is implemented immediately and requires no new campaign to take effect. I used to fiddle around with unit/building stats all the time with the game open, and all you had to do was exit the campaign and reload it

I'll have to play around with these files, need to introduce myself to all this modding business.

[Yomamashouse]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that when you change a .txt file, that doesn't alter game scripts, the change is implemented immediately and requires no new campaign to take effect. I used to fiddle around with unit/building stats all the time with the game open, and all you had to do was exit the campaign and reload it

You are entirely correct. You can edit any of the basic text files, as each of those is re-loaded each time the client is started.

[Actionman]

Ahh, thanks for the info. Those large spears must weigh a lot, I guess I'll try to use them as intended.

[Dwarven Berserker]

Yeah they are horrible.

They usually arrive at the battlefield long after the battle has been decided
However they are a lot faster when they rout

[smoesville]

Yeah they are horrible.

They usually arrive at the battlefield long after the battle has been decided
However they are a lot faster when they rout

Yes and then all my archers can focus all fire on what is usually a single halberd unit with that many arrows they don't even get to rout

[brasswire]

Yeah they are horrible.

They usually arrive at the battlefield long after the battle has been decided

Agreed. I love seeing them in the opposing army though. The AI will still build them and then it's like one less unit to fight because they never reach the battle in time.


The only problem is when they finally do get there and you have to figure out how to kill them because you forgot to save any arrows for them.

[paradamed]

They are better used when defending gates or streets in settlements.

[Hermes Trismegistos]

They move with acceptable speed when you take them out of guard mode.

As the AI doesn't know this, they are a complete waste of army space when used by the Ai however. I don't know if this is on purpose, but I doubt it. I think the speed of spear-wall units in general should be revisited in later versions, there seems to be something wrong when some, like the orcs use so much slower that they are practically unusable, while others, like the fountain guards even move faster than other units without running.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Since the AI never turns the guard mode off, one could simply raise their base speed to "fix" the issue.

Or, take off the guard mode itself from the unit.

[King Siegfried]

Since the AI never turns the guard mode off, one could simply raise their base speed to "fix" the issue.

Or, take off the guard mode itself from the unit.

All units have guard mode; you cannot take it away.

But perhaps they have an attribute that makes them start in guard mode by default. If so, then that should be a simple fix by removing that attribute. Otherwise, that 0.6 speed is the issue (which I'm pretty sure is the case). Try raising the speed to 0.75 or 0.8. That should still be a noticeable difference in speed yet not be so abysmally slow.

[TartanArmyStu]

I've only tested this with OOTMM's heavy goblin halberdiers, but they make up for their intensly slow speed and impressive weakness to arrows with an insane ability to topple high-tier good units. I pitted them against swan knights - they routed them easily, losing around 30 or 40 goblins each time.
I also had them face off with the mighty eldar swordsmen and again, they destroyed them with around 50 losses each time.
I was using them with spearwall on and guard mode off.
It's also worth noting that they have very poor stamina too. So to sum up, if you need them to hold a gate, wall gap or any other choke-point, then you instantly have a very reliable defensive line.
They're also very good for pushing through gates and other choke points, provided that they rout/destroy the defending units in good time. Keep in mind that in order to get to the gate or whatever else, they will take a long long time to get there, and you better hope your enemy is not packing archers. If they do, and you can't distract or kill them, then it's curtains for you.

[young_dude]

I've only tested this with OOTMM's heavy goblin halberdiers, but they make up for their intensly slow speed and impressive weakness to arrows with an insane ability to topple high-tier good units. I pitted them against swan knights - they routed them easily, losing around 30 or 40 goblins each time.
I also had them face off with the mighty eldar swordsmen and again, they destroyed them with around 50 losses each time.
I was using them with spearwall on and guard mode off.
It's also worth noting that they have very poor stamina too. So to sum up, if you need them to hold a gate, wall gap or any other choke-point, then you instantly have a very reliable defensive line.
They're also very good for pushing through gates and other choke points, provided that they rout/destroy the defending units in good time. Keep in mind that in order to get to the gate or whatever else, they will take a long long time to get there, and you better hope your enemy is not packing archers. If they do, and you can't distract or kill them, then it's curtains for you.

Yes, in the hands of the player I'm sure they are a competent unit. But in the hands of the ai, I've always found them to be rather useless since their vanilla speed makes them late to the party every time.

[k/t]

It's not Guard Mode that slows them down but Spear Wall.

[Hermes Trismegistos]

No, that's not the problem, I think most people know that you have to take them out of spear wall to let them run, but they start with activated guard mode by default and if you don't disable that as well they still move with snail's speed. They even get the running animation but it looks like they are running in extreme slow motion. It feels really unrealistic and it wasn't like that in the first Third Age versions I played (I have successfully played the campaign with OotMM twice and they always had bad stamina but the first time could move relatively normal for spear wall units), I don't know when that error got in.

[Scorpius Centaurus]

No, k/t is correct, it is spear wall that slows them down, not guard mode. Their base speed is ridiculously slow. The A.I cannot cope with it. When attacking the player the rest of the A.I army will keep stopping to wait for the halberd unit to catch up to them and hence the entire army gets decimated by volleys of arrows from the player. I posted in the suggestions thread a long time ago about increasing the base speed for goblin halberd units. I doubt though that KK has read through all those posts.

[grinder]

After testing a unit of heavy goblin halberds, it seems to me that neither guard mode nor spear wall make any difference (other than that they can run ridiculously slow with spear wall off) whatsoever. Their slow speed comes solely from the x0.6 modifier. Alter this and the unit should be fine.

[Hermes Trismegistos]

You are right and I was wrong. After testing it they are just very slow (so that you don't get anywhere without running) and is has nothing to do with guard mode. Very strange, as I once asked abou it here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...08#post9152808

and I was sure the solution with the guard mode worked at that time. Maybe that was corrected in a later version but without increasing the general speed?

EDIT: No, there was no new verion after that post. Curiouser and curiouser... then I guess I was halluzinating at that time.