Why it's pointless to debate religion

[Evariste]

Religion, as an idea based purely on faith, has no place in the world of debate, an art based on logic and reason. logic, reason, and faith are wholly irreconcilable. Consider this definition obtained on dictionary.com:

faith-n

2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

Therefore, one could go as far as to say that faith is the antithesis of reason. This begs the question: how is it even possible to debate religion? Answer: It's not.

Try this example,
Atheist: God is imaginary. Religion is ridiculous. Science can explain everything about the world that was once only capable by religion.
Theist: Exactly, there is no evidence per se to suggest a higher power, it is my faith in him that makes it real. There are so many things that can't be explained by science alone, and the creator is obviously responsible. Nature is perfect in so many ways that it is impossible not to suggest that there's something greater out there.
Atheist: Still, the bible is filled with contradictions, and God tends to act in ways that go against sense.
Theist: God is above human comprehension and logic. Since he is all-knowing, he acts in ways that would seem odd to us, but as we are not perfect beings, we can not comprehend his workings. All will be revealed in the end.
Atheist: That's a convenient argument
Theist: You ignore thousands and thousands of years of spiritualism and religion. It is obvious that the idea of some sort of higher power is deeply ingrained in humanity. How can you deny that?
Atheist/Theist: This could go on for hours. I'm right and you're wrong.

This is the result of 99.9 percent of debates on the subject. It typically ends with each side even more convinced that they are right and the other side is wrong. It also leads to a personal dislike of the other side, since these things always seem to boil down to vitriolic attacks. So, debating religion makes no progress, and is therefore, pointless.

On a personal note, while I consider myself agnostic, I can still see why one would choose to be an adherent to a faith. It promotes a strong sense of belonging. It also contributes to a sense of wholeness, since many deep, philosophical questions about life are addressed, mainly for the positive. I can definitely understand why one would want that in their life, I just feel like I don't need it to be happy.

[therussian]

Why is it pointless? Because humans are stubborn beings.

[Evariste]

I suppose that I wasn't clear enough. It's pointless to debate because religion is above human logic and understanding. Since the art of debate relies on logic and reasoning to prove things, religion, by definition, can not be debated.

For example, I believe that a flying spaghetti monster created the world. How can you prove that it didn't?

[Richard the Lionheart]

You do realize that this is just going to turn into another debate about religion...right? :wink:

[Final Frontier]

It's not exactly pointless; after all, people have always been questioning the "beyond," and this just happens to be one of the ways to do so, though it may not exactly find the "correct" answer.

For example, I believe that a flying spaghetti monster created the world. How can you prove that it didn't?

Well, I could be logical and ask for tangible or visible evidence, because some people only believe what they can see or understand.

[Scar Face]

All debates are pointless. All debates are about personal belief, and if it isn't the debate only lasts a post or so before someone brings out evidence. So while debates on religion is pointless, so is all debates. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

Well, I could be logical and ask for tangible or visible evidence, because some people only believe what they can see or understand.

I belive in god and Ive never seen him. You cant dismiss something simply because you cant see it with your eyes. And there is no evidence to disprove it. So yes it is impossible.

[Evariste]

I just don't see how it's even possible to debate something that isn't subject to the same rules as everything else.

[Fenris]

Consider this definition obtained on dictionary.com:

faith-n

2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

This would be more the definition of blind faith than mere faith.

[Sétanta]

I just don't see how it's even possible to debate something that isn't subject to the same rules as everything else.

Then you debate it by its own rules. The rules change to form with the subject in debate, not the other way around

[Scar Face]

This would be more the definition of blind faith than mere faith.

No that would be mere faith. Unless your saying having faith in the devine is blind and foolish. In which case stop trying to make others retaliate.

[Kscott]

Its only pointless when the debate becomes circular, which it does about 90% of the time. When such things happen I usually leave the debate and find a new thread to stalk.

[Final Frontier]

I belive in god and Ive never seen him. You cant dismiss something simply because you cant see it with your eyes. And there is no evidence to disprove it. So yes it is impossible.

I wasn't bashing God, I believe in God also...or you could just be agreeing with me, in which case I blush.

Its only pointless when the debate becomes circular, which it does about 90% of the time. When such things happen I usually leave the debate and find a new thread to stalk.

Good point, there's no reason in beating up a dead horse...

[Fenris]

Good point, there's no reason in beating up a dead horse...

This is why I'm trying to put all the arguments in ONE post, so it will not be necessary to repeat them over and over... but it will... oh yes it will.

[David Deas]

You do realize that this is just going to turn into another debate about religion...right? :wink:

Or that he ain't exactly presenting an original idea here.

If I had a penny for how many times we've heard the 'religion is not based in logic' arguement.

[mongoose]

Theist: Exactly, there is no evidence per se to suggest a higher power, it is my faith in him that makes it real. There are so many things that can't be explained by science alone, and the creator is obviously responsible. Nature is perfect in so many ways that it is impossible not to suggest that there's something greater out there.

Am I the only one who finds this part to be absurd? Nature is NOT perfect. It is harsh, unpleasent, and generally lacking in morality. Some species go extinct, adn some animals are more then alittle out of place (if you want to use one of Darth Wong's arguments, why would a perfect being desgin sea animals that can drown?).

And I should add that Religion doesn't just exist outside of logic, it contradicts it. See Ockham's Razor.

[Fenris]

Am I the only one who finds this part to be absurd? Nature is NOT perfect. It is harsh, unpleasent, and generally lacking in morality. Some species go extinct, adn some animals are more then alittle out of place (if you want to use one of Darth Wong's arguments, why would a perfect being desgin sea animals that can drown?).

Here you go Honor&Glory, you were right :laughing:

[Sétanta]

And I should add that Religion doesn't just exist outside of logic, it contradicts it. See Ockham's Razor.

See. Its the atheists who start debating religion. Not us

[mongoose]

See. Its the atheists who start debating religion. Not us

Here you go Honor&Glory, you were right :laughing:

opps.

But what else are we supposed to do? Looking at his argument for faith being impossible to disprove seems constructive enough. Ok, I'll just shut up now :laughing:

[Fenris]

See. Its the atheists who start debating religion. Not us

Well at least we're not the ones causing all those troubles with religions!

It's our duty to save the world!

:laughing:

But what else are we supposed to do? Looking at his argument for faith being impossible to disprove seems constructive enough. Ok, I'll just shut up now

Go write an essay on how nature is far from perfect in the S.I.N argumentation topic!

[Angarah]

Satan is a very good (or conveniant) explanation for all the bad things.. or God's "master plan". There is absolutely no way to disprove religion, just like there is no way to prove it. Sad how millions of lives have been destroyed over something like this, and that millions have lived in unhappiness because of beliefs that cannot be proven. Our world is one ****ed up place. :/