Would You...

[Nazgûl Killer]

I had some spare time on my hands, and have yesterday played M2TW (Stainless Steel 6.1) for the first time for goodness knows how long... So I will start by presenting a specific scenario that I faced yesterday.

Playing as the Byzantine Empire, I was in the midst of an epic war with the Turks, bashing heads back and forth, taking Isparta and Iconium from them only to lose Nicea and be forced to retake it along with Ankara, exchanging skirmishes, gigantic battles of faction leaders and exchanging cities far too often than I'd like to admit, until I landed my paralyzing blow, which I had been preparing for; A naval invasion from Trebizond. This crippled my Turkish foe...

So after 56 turns of war with the Turks, I reached a ceasefire (Finally), and started recuperating from this immense and unrelenting war. Rebuilding, recruiting and repairing.

Soon enough, the Egyptians (In the midst of an equally epic war with the Templar Order) had launched an offensive on Cyprus which saw me defeated and humiliated, losing control of my Middle Eastern foothold which I had planned to use to invade the Turks from the South and perhaps assist the Templar Order (Whom I've been assisting by giving them monetary aid every turn, equaling to around 1500 florins per turn, helping them finance their war).

I was faced with a dreadful decision;
A) Enact my vengeance and full fury upon the Egyptians immediately and assist my Templar allies, by mobilizing all of my armies immediately and leaving the Turkish front undefended while rebuilding a new army to face the Turks....
B) Build my armies, consolidate and go on the defensive. Await the right moment to strike while building immense armies to be lead by my generals into the new Middle Eastern front - Forcing my poor Templar allies to face the might of the Egyptians on their own and probably losing them as an only ally against the Muslim states, and the only stronghold left in the Middle East that's not Muslim.
C) Negotiate peace with the Egyptians and hope they don't attack again, taking the humiliation and hoping none more will come.
D) Retake Cyprus and negotiate a peace, which will likely not happen after retaking Cyprus.
E) Launch a renewed offensive on the Turks, the Egyptian's allies, in hopes to annihilate them and take all their lands - And from there assault the Egyptian kingdom.

I had already made my choice and will elaborate on it if you wish.
What would you choose, TWC?

[In3x]

E

[Phil-12-12]

You are not being attacked from the west by Hungary, Sicily nor Venice?

[Nazgûl Killer]

You are not being attacked from the west by Hungary, Sicily nor Venice?

That's the beauty of Stainless Steel. Nations won't attack you if you're stronger than they are, or if they have enemies of their own unlike in the idiotic Vanilla AI. Venice is entangled with the Holy Roman Empire and Genoa, Hungary is a good ally of mine and facing the Holy Roman Empire and Poland, and Sicily is also my ally and facing Genoa, Moors and France.

[Grymloq]

A and D

[Emperor of Hell]

E

[LongWind]

If you have a navy, make sure Egypt can't get off Cyprus, then you have time to rebuild your defenses against the Turks and, if you desire so, attack Egypt.

At least, that's what I would do

[tudor93]

I would have said B, because what's the point in helping your ally if they will backstab you anyway like they always do, thus let them fight the egiptians and get destroyed; but then I red your reply, so I choose E , but you should send at least some small forces to help the templars

[Nazgûl Killer]

Like what?

What I meant was, that in the course of the war they had retaken Ankara and Iconium, only to have me take it from them, only to have them take it back, only to have me retake them, only to have them launch a naval assault on Rhodes and so on and so on.

I would have said B, because what's the point in helping your ally if they will backstab you anyway like they always do, thus let them fight the egiptians and get destroyed; but then I red your reply, so I choose E , but you should send at least some small forces to help the templars

That would indeed be a good idea if the Egyptians were to limit themselves to small forces too... But they don't. They have gigantic armies and never ending armies.

Eventually, what I did do was keep the Egyptians at bay for a while, launching naval offensives every now and then, and eventually took back Cyprus with a tough assault. I had launched several assaults on their coastal cities and blockaded their ports, to wreak havoc and make some precision strikes to destroy select armies while utilizing a broad network of spies and assassins to harass them, eventually I had harassed them so horribly that the Templars had begun pushing the Egyptians back.


Once I saw that, I had sent one of my most promising generals over to Tortosa accompanied by a relatively small army to capitalize on the momentum of the Templar assault to gain some experience, while recruiting mercenaries along the way, helping them retake Aleppo from the Egyptian foe.


After 10 turns of preparations, I had 2 immense armies prepared for an offensive, one of which I sent to Tortosa to launch an attack with the help of the Templars, to push through and take over Damascus - And another landed next to Acre to conquer it. Another force had been waiting in Cyprus, I had sent it as well to block any counter attacks to stave off the siege of Acre. All in all, I had 7 generals stationed in the Middle East, vastly outnumbered but superior in all terms of quality with my superb heavy infantry and cavalry archers.


Eventually, the offensive became an utter success and with an endless stream of forces flowing from Cyprus and Corinth, I had found myself in control of modern day Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Egypt and Lybia - And the Egyptians are but a shadow of what they once were. Reduced to 3-4 settlements... But they refuse to give up... Maybe I'll spare them... But I doubt it.

[Totalwarplayer96]

exchanging cities far too often than I'd like to admit,

Like what?

[Teutonic Warlord]

Wow. Just wow. I never knew SS was that amazing. I downloaded it once (and we had this discussion in an earlier thread about it), but I deleted it because it was such a complete makeover of M2 that I knew it would take more time than I had to to learn all the new intricacies. I ended up going with Third Age. I had no clue enemies wouldn't attack you if you are stronger. And, honestly, your campaign sounds absolutely epic. Vanilla M2 has me wiping out the Turks in the first 10 turns by killing their FL and FH in two settlements. Maybe I should let them grow a bit for a challenge, but I don't want to be hit in the back by them when dealing with Hungary, Sicily, and Venice.

Anyway, I think I would go for a limited war with Egypt. Retake Cyprus and build up your navy so you can stop any offensives by them. Then send just one good stack (with reinforcements, of course) to harass the Egyptian heartlands in the hope that most of these lands are not very well defended because they are so far from the fighting. That should really hurt their unit production AND economy. If you can hold onto those, the Templars should be able to hold their own and gain some territory from Egypt. Meanwhile, you can still build up for a rematch with the Turks.

EDIT: Whoops, I am a bit late. Looks like you pretty much did what I posted anyway.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Well, it's not exactly that they won't attack someone tougher than they are, it's just that they'd use some more brains into it. They'd attack whomever it benefits them most to attack - If you have many allies who happen to be allied to that faction as well, along with a high reputation, it's doubtful they'd attack you.

I should add my reputation is currently "Immaculate", which helps. Factions rarely attack me because of this.

[tudor93]

damn, I think I will reinstall m2tw and download SS

[Silverheart]

I would choose option A.
The Turks are already battered, and assuming you have the military, building up new armies on that frontline shouldn´t take more than 3 turns...

So, yeah, counterattack and exact revenge on them dirty bastards!

[StealthFox]

Send a few good armies done to ravage Egypt! Nothing is as satisfying as crippling a faction that unexpectedly attacks you.

[Christonikos]

As far as I remember from SS, when I retook Cypruus from the Egyptians, I always after that signed a ceasefire and it was very generous. However after some turns I got attacked again. And that happened 3 - 4 times.

[Delvecchio1975]

As far as I remember from SS, when I retook Cypruus from the Egyptians, I always after that signed a ceasefire and it was very generous. However after some turns I got attacked again. And that happened 3 - 4 times.

That used to happen up to version 6.3 - since installing 6.4 that neat little moneymaking trick doesn't work for me any more

[Wrathsputin]

I personally would opt for Option E, the bloodthirsty tyrant that I am.

[Leaf-Fan-Forever]

I like to help my allies, as loyalty is a big thing for me. Re-mobilize for an attack on Egypt.

[Timur_the_Lame]

A, because as the ERE you likely have huge economy. So building new armies on the turkish front, esp when they are only needed for defense, will not cost you much