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Thread: DCI: Tôl Acharn 1.2.4 released 12th Aug 2013 - unleash the mighty Dúnedain Counter-Invasions for TATW 3.2

  1. #81
    Captain Zoran's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Really looking forward to this feature. Keep up ze great wörk!
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  2. #82
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Thanks Cap', knowing people looking foreward to it makes it even more fun to work with for us


    About the agent topic (my own quote):
    The existance of a Loremaster will not be depending on or restricted by any buildings. To get the first one will be dependent on a little trek for a Gondor Journeyman and by the reforging of Arnor in that factions case. If he's lost next one might come to another price
    We have, due to the fact that a Loremaster can not convert population and the mechanical questions on when to trigger a "'Hire' the master", decided to allow the gent' be free to spawn and respawn if killed, because while he can summon Acharn his upkeep in the long run will make it a real investment without initial unit payment.
    Last edited by Ngugi; January 31, 2012 at 08:49 AM.

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  3. #83
    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Withwnar View Post
    If the trigger was based on events such as these then it might never happen, or it might happen too late. The trigger is based on an act of aggression on Gondor's part followed up by a trek/quest.

    Helm's Deep: Loremasters are limited to Gondor and Arnor only - only those factions may call jihads. Northmen factions (Rohan, Dale and Eriador) can only join them.
    Ah, so an Invasion Successful/Failed on Minas Tirith could spark talks of a Counter Invasion? Or if an evil Faction manages to take both East and West Osgiliath?

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-D Ron View Post
    Ah, so an Invasion Successful/Failed on Minas Tirith could spark talks of a Counter Invasion? Or if an evil Faction manages to take both East and West Osgiliath?
    The problem with this is that it would make the feature almost non existant for experienced players. I for instance never ever lose Minas Tirith or both banks of the Anduin at any time during a Gondor campaign. If that was the trigger for something as awesome as the Tol Acharn it would mean I'd never be able to experience it.
    "Romans regarded peace not as an absence of war, but the rare situation that existed when all opponents had been beaten down and lost the ability to resist."


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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Good points Hallow
    While it was considered that some certain losses or problem should be required before the Acharn would be available (such as Minas Tirith would be lost as you speculated 2-D) it was considered tedious scripting and more important that possibly the player would not, playing good, gain what he most likely want using this mod haha.
    The concept of the Tôl Acharn is not revenge for any instant, current losses should be said as well! Its vengeance due to a long history of evil acts, of suffering - what differs from before is that due to the Loremasters new inspiration the wish to avenge is boiling over: Dúnedain rally and their allied Northmen kin, old enemies of the Enemy, join when Sauron's iron fist again summon all evil against the West.

    So, we decided upon these criterieas to be able to invoke the Acharn, least for the beta;
    Gondor: fulfill the trek that makes the Journeyman into Gondors Loremaster + some turns after the first Invasion.
    Arnor: reforge the kingdom (spawns the Loremaster) + some turns after the first Invasion/reforging.
    If the players will present wishes on this matter after beta-testing, desirable from a balance perspective, it might be edited later on
    Last edited by Ngugi; January 31, 2012 at 03:17 PM.

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    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
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    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
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  6. #86
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Good points Hallow
    While it was considered that some certain losses or problem should be required before the Acharn would be available (such as Minas Tirith would be lost as you speculated 2-D) it was considered tedious scripting and more important that possibly the player would not, playing good, gain what he most likely want using this mod haha.
    The concept of the Tôl Acharn is not revenge for any instant, current losses should be said as well! Its vengeance due to a long history of evil acts, of suffering - what differs from before is that due to the Loremasters new inspiration the wish to avenge is boiling over: Dúnedain rally and their allied Northmen kin, old enemies of the Enemy, join when Sauron's iron fist again summon all evil against the West.

    So, we decided upon these criterieas to be able to invoke the Acharn, least for the beta;
    Gondor: fulfill the trek that makes the Journeyman into Gondors Loremaster + some turns after the first Invasion.
    Arnor: reforge the kingdom (spawns the Loremaster) + some turns after the first Invasion/reforging.
    If the players will present wishes on this matter after beta-testing, desirable from a balance perspective, it might be edited later on
    Do you have any more information on what this trek would be for the Gondor Journeyman? I'm quite intrigued
    "Romans regarded peace not as an absence of war, but the rare situation that existed when all opponents had been beaten down and lost the ability to resist."


  7. #87
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    It's mainly a little "pilgrimage", more to be the background and reasons for the Tôl Acharns place in the Dúnedains culture than direct game affecting play. A lore-bound story we hope will add a flavour to the feeling of the ongoing struggle between this ancient land and its mortal Enemy.
    Last edited by Ngugi; February 01, 2012 at 09:25 AM.

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    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    It's mainly a little "pilgrimage", more to be the background and reasons for the Tôl Acharns place in the Dúnedains culture than direct game affecting play. A lore-bound story we hope will add a flavour to the feeling of the ongoing struggle between this ancient land and its mortal Enemy.
    Great feature and perfect place to add in some lore!

    Perhaps have him visit some old battlefields, monuments and capitals for good factions, where you could add in the history of the place? Would be as interesting for the Loremaster as for the player
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  9. #89
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Our intent indeed

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    DCI: Last Alliance
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  10. #90
    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    So when the Loremaster is spawned, does it unspawn when the Jihad is over?
    Is there a Turn Limit to each Jihad like a Jihad from same Loremaster every 50 Turns?

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Nope, he will be an normal agent for as long as he lives - but if killed it will take some time before he's replaced.
    The turn limit is the same as for Invasions (hard coded it seems) - so while fewer factions than in Invasions may join the amount of these counter actions in themselves isn't less.

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    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
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  12. #92
    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Nope, he will be an normal agent for as long as he lives - but if killed it will take some time before he's replaced.
    The turn limit is the same as for Invasions (hard coded it seems) - so while fewer factions than in Invasions may join the amount of these counter actions in themselves isn't less.
    Never knew that turns per Invasion was Hardcoded?

    Sweet so Arnor & Gondor would have to complete a set of Tasks in Order to unlock the Ability to spawn a Lore Master.
    Would have to be difficult to do like reforming the Reunited Kingdom, only not as extreme as marching all the way to Bara-dur to unlock it.. But something similar?

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Sorry, think I misunderstood you I meant that there is a certain amount of turns that has to pass between a jihad/crusade ending till next one may be launched.

    In the case with Gondor the loreish trek of the Journeyman will enable him to turn into a Loremaster; in the case with Arnor we considered that the reforging in itself would take up so much time and effort that it seemed rather annoying for players to have to manage yet other goals before/during/after reforging, before getting their own Loremaster.
    Honestly Arnor was a main reason for me to begin with the project - I wanted for the player to be able to, one created the old kingdom again, get down fast to make a difference. To fight the Dúnedains greatest enemies where the "real war" (in 2.1 that was) anyway always were fought and mostly determined: in and around Gondor.

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  14. #94
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-D Ron View Post
    Never knew that turns per Invasion was Hardcoded?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Sorry, think I misunderstood you I meant that there is a certain amount of turns that has to pass between a jihad/crusade ending till next one may be launched.
    That's right: turns between Invasions is hardcoded. Jihads too. For jihads it seems to be 10 turns (don't know about invasions/crusades). Unless there is a setting somewhere that we don't know about.

    The Gondor "tasks" are not difficult, just time consuming. And to have a Northmen faction join your jihad you need to be their ally; to have all join all must be your ally. Getting alliances is not necessarily easy.

    As Ngugi mentioned, regardless of when you complete the tasks jihads are not callable by anybody (even Arnor) until after Invasions start. You could complete the tasks early and get a Loremaster but he won't be jihad-enabled until the first Invasion begins.

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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Withwnar View Post
    That's right: turns between Invasions is hardcoded. Jihads too. For jihads it seems to be 10 turns (don't know about invasions/crusades). Unless there is a setting somewhere that we don't know about.

    The Gondor "tasks" are not difficult, just time consuming. And to have a Northmen faction join your jihad you need to be their ally; to have all join all must be your ally. Getting alliances is not necessarily easy.

    As Ngugi mentioned, regardless of when you complete the tasks jihads are not callable by anybody (even Arnor) until after Invasions start. You could complete the tasks early and get a Loremaster but he won't be jihad-enabled until the first Invasion begins.
    And will they acually join the Jihad when called?
    When an Invasion is called not all the Evil Factions will join it, once nobody but Harad joined it lol

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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-D Ron View Post
    And will they acually join the Jihad when called?
    When an Invasion is called not all the Evil Factions will join it, once nobody but Harad joined it lol
    The correct answer is: yes we have tested it many times that the Northmen do join - sometimes
    Just as the case with Invasions its not guaranteed that factions who get the possibility actually takes it. To a high degree this seems to be based upon the armies available to the individual faction and possibly it might be other factors as diplomacy stand for example.
    Jihad/Invasion mechanics proved very hard to gain knowlidge on, we couldnt find ai-variables affecting and nobody else seems to dived deep into the matter either hehe.

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  17. #97
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Can't wait for this, great submod . Rep for you both.

    If you need some more help, you know where to find me

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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Thanks mate! Oh, will not be afraid to ask whenever needed

    Here's a little screen shot showing Northmen joining in; in this case Rohan outran me (Gondor) to this eastward target of the Acharn. Soon behind us where Eriador charging down while Dale became my ally first after the Loremaster invoked the oath meaning they'll have to wait for the next one

    Beside that we can note that we got permission from Curufin to use his Spearmen of Pinnath Gelin soldiers to fill the role as the Gondor Volunteers (replacing G. Spearmen as merc) - one of the mercenary units available during an Acharn. Currently working on adding the models.
    We thank for this as we wanted a more rustic, less military professional look for those guys.
    At the moment the avalible merc's southwards will be versions of the Ithilian Rangers, Black Vale Rangers, Lossnarch Axemen and Gondor Spearmen/Spearmen of Pinnath Gelin.
    Up north there will be versions of Dúnedain Rangers, Dúnedain Swordsmen and Mounted Rangers (two latter from smoesvilles DotN).
    There is also one last merc but will not reveal that little treat.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Ngugi; November 11, 2012 at 08:45 AM.

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    DCI: Last Alliance
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    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
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  19. #99
    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Thanks mate! Oh, will not be afraid to ask whenever needed

    Here's a little screen shot showing Northmen joining in; in this case Rohan outran me (Gondor) to this eastward target of the Acharn. Soon behind us where Eriador charging down while Dale became my ally first after the Loremaster invoked the oath meaning they'll have to wait for the next one

    Beside that we can note that we got permission from Curufin to use his Spearmen of Pinnath Gelin soldiers to fill the role as the Gondor Volunteers (replacing G. Spearmen as merc) - one of the mercenary units available during an Acharn. Currently working on adding the models.
    We thank for this as we wanted a more rustic, less military professional look for those guys.
    At the moment the avalible merc's southwards will be versions of the Ithilian Rangers, Black Vale Rangers, Lossnarch Axemen and Gondor Spearmen/Spearmen of Pinnath Gelin.
    Up north there will be versions of Dúnedain Rangers, Dúnedain Swordsmen and Mounted Rangers (two latter from smoesvilles DotN).
    There is also one last merc but will not reveal that little treat.

    Cheers
    Awesome! So it'll be a United Colours of Men, recruitable from everywhere.
    Combined with the future version of Divide and Conquer, it'll be epic!!

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    Default Re: Dúnedain Jihad submod - now for all Men of the West: WIP for 3.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Thanks mate! Oh, will not be afraid to ask whenever needed

    Here's a little screen shot showing Northmen joining in; in this case Rohan outran me (Gondor) to this eastward target of the Acharn. Soon behind us where Eriador charging down while Dale became my ally first after the Loremaster invoked the oath meaning they'll have to wait for the next one

    Beside that we can note that we got permission from Curufin to use his Spearmen of Pinnath Gelin soldiers to fill the role as the Gondor Volunteers (replacing G. Spearmen as merc) - one of the mercenary units available during an Acharn. Currently working on adding the models.
    We thank for this as we wanted a more rustic, less military professional look for those guys.
    At the moment the avalible merc's southwards will be versions of the Ithilian Rangers, Black Vale Rangers, Lossnarch Axemen and Gondor Spearmen/Spearmen of Pinnath Gelin.
    Up north there will be versions of Dúnedain Rangers, Dúnedain Swordsmen and Mounted Rangers (two latter from smoesvilles DotN).
    There is also one last merc but will not reveal that little treat.

    Cheers
    Sounds wickedly awesome! But what about the northmen? Will they also be able to recruit mercs/volunteers in their specific regions?
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