Is #40 a hero?

[Farnan]

Many times sportstars are called heroes. They are people that many children look up to and want to imititate. Those who are older know that sportstars aren't really heroes in most case. Many sportstars are overpaid brats (;cough; TO ;cough, but there are a few exceptions and the last #40 of the Arizona Cardinals is, in my opinion, one of those exceptions.

As a safety for the Arizona Cardinals he managed to break the franchise record with 223 tackles. In college he had managed to lead his team to the Rose Bowl. All of those great feats in the NFL, but that those not make him a hero.

What made him a hero is what he did after what everyone thought would be a normal September day in 2001. But that day was far from normal, it was a day that changed the world and this star athlete's life. #40, whose name was Pat Tillman, felt a surge of patriotism after the events of that day. He threw away a multi-million dollar contract and joined the United States Army and became a Ranger, an elite unit of light infantry. He surved in Afghanistan where he was Killed in Action. How many of us would do the same? How many of us could give up millions to do what we believed was right? That is why, in my opinion, Pat Tillman is one of the few sportstars that was really a hero.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Yeah, he gave up fame and fortune and a generaly awesome lifestyle that billions dream of to become a lowly ranger. He gave all, thus a hero.

[Hub'ite]

I would consider him a modern day hero. I don't know if I could give up millions of dollars and fight for what I believed in, I would hope I would but I don't know. His roommate also joined the Marines and gave up a 1.2 million dollar contract.

[Sétanta]

He was a hero for serving and defending his country, not for being a sports star.

It is beyond absurd that these morons who got lucky contribute nothing, NOTHING to society and get payed millions of dollars for it.

[Tiwaz]

Answer to question of this thread.

Man who dies defending ones country against unprovoked attack is always a hero.

Man who dies attacking/occupying another persons country without being attacked first is not.

[Lord Tomyris]

Answer to question of this thread.

Man who dies defending ones country against unprovoked attack is always a hero.

Man who dies attacking/occupying another persons country without being attacked first is not.

Yes yes that's why he's a hero, fighting back after the 9/11 attacks!

[Marcus Scaurus]

Man who dies attacking/occupying another persons country without being attacked first is not.

In war, politicians attack and occupy countries. Men like ranger Patt Tillman do what they can: they follow orders, try to save their comrade's asses and try not to get killed.

[Tiwaz]

In war, politicians attack and occupy countries. Men like ranger Patt Tillman do what they can: they follow orders, try to save their comrade's asses and try not to get killed.

And politicians cannot do any of that if people like Patt Tillman do not say "Ok boss, I'll attack".

General/politician ordering an attack without troops is more pathetic than dangerous.

[1{H][NA]

And politicians cannot do any of that if people like Patt Tillman do not say "Ok boss, I'll attack".

General/politician ordering an attack without troops is more pathetic than dangerous.

if everyone said that, than you would hardly have a military. not everyone wants to go to afghan, but they go because they have to, its a chain of command. armies are not democracies. if you are looking for someone to blame, than blame the people who voted in the administration.

[Tiwaz]

if everyone said that, than you would hardly have a military. not everyone wants to go to afghan, but they go because they have to, its a chain of command. armies are not democracies. if you are looking for someone to blame, than blame the people who voted in the administration.

Not true necessarily. If men tell that something is beyond what they are willing to do then their leaders have no alternative but to give in.

Such men who do now give up their principles and stick to them despite their superiors telling them opposite are men with spine, integrity and balls.

For the record, during attack phase of Continuation war (1941) upon reaching former finnish-russian border there were lots of cases of refusal to advance by finnish soldiers. These guys were willing to fight for their country to the last but did not want to attack other guys home even if they had done that to them first. Those guys had guts, despite their superiors telling them to advance and threat of military court they stuck to their principles.

[removeduser_487563287433]

And all of a sudden the thread stopped, dead still. It looked around and in a cold wash of horror that swam over its entire body, it realised it had just stepped right in the middle of a minefield.

[Farnan]

Pat Tillman died in Afghanistan, not Iraq so that debate is irrevelant.

To Tiwaz: A soldier does not choose where he goes, he goes where he is ordered. If he refused it means someone else would go and may result in someone else dying.

To mike: What happened, from what I read, is there was an explosion near the unit. This being Afghanistan and not Iraq I doubt is was an IED. Well the unit believed they were engaged with the enemy and somehow Pat Tillman was killed in the fire, maybe due to bullet richochet, maybe he took point and was returning to the unit and the unit mistook him for an enemy, any number of reasons. I'm guessing that the burning was the idea of the men there who probably though "Oh **** we just killed Pat Tillman" and tried to hide what they did. The manner of his death really doesn't matter, and they didn't want to reveal it because it may degrade the memory of a soldier who gave up more than most.

[Tiwaz]

Pat Tillman died in Afghanistan, not Iraq so that debate is irrevelant.

To Tiwaz: A soldier does not choose where he goes, he goes where he is ordered. If he refused it means someone else would go and may result in someone else dying.

Soldier chooses to follow orders. If he and his buddies refuse to be ones to cross the foreign border first there will be no war and people will not die in that war.

Since concept of USA doing wrong or US soldiers not being great shining knights of goodness might be difficult for some to comprehend I'll use more easily digested example.

If, in 1939, german soldiers when told to attack Poland had told Adolf & buddies to get lost... Do you think there would have been WW2 in way it was?

[bigfootedfred]

If, in 1939, german soldiers when told to attack Poland had told Adolf & buddies to get lost... Do you think there would have been WW2 in way it was?

Hilter took measures to make sure he controlled the army.
Politicains dont order soliders, they order the army, which has a chain of command.
If you dont follow the chain of command in the army, you dont stay in the army.
They only way the army could tell the US head of state (and the US congress)
to 'get lost' is if the commanders Launched a millitary coup

[deadcell87]

If this guy is a hero so is everyone that serves the damn military. People just bserve him and make him like hes some national hero. He was killed by friendly fire and his death is in invitegation. If this guy is a hero so are my cousins and anyone else who has served in the military including my brother who is going to sign up in the summer.

[Hub'ite]

If this guy is a hero so is everyone that serves the damn military. People just bserve him and make him like hes some national hero. He was killed by friendly fire and his death is in invitegation. If this guy is a hero so are my cousins and anyone else who has served in the military including my brother who is going to sign up in the summer.

Your correct. How many of yall would give up millions to serve in the military?

[Dirty Harry]

Many athletes are heroes in the classical sense which is based on incredible godlike performance that is exponential greater than what is expected of normal people, which by today's language would be more clearly defined as a "superman" or possibly a champion (in the medieval sense) and MVP. Achilles, Ajax and Diomemes were not really great role models, but they were the heroes of the greek army. Kobe Bryant isn't a great role model, but he is the hero of the Lakers.

Today the word has probably been butchered beyond redepemtion, every kid who gets a bad illness is a hero, so is every secretary or waiter who has done a good job for the day. Heroes are the guys who win congressional medals or honour and victoria crosses, Pat Tillman is definitely a great and inspirational man, but let's save the word hero.

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

I don't see how this guy is any different from the other people serving in the military. Okay, so he gave up a juicy million-dollar contract, how does this make him heroic?

Does he risk more than the poor college drop-out who signs up to find direction in his life? Or, like a friend of mine, join up after college because they feel it's the right thing to do?

I don't see the difference.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I don't see how this guy is any different from the other people serving in the military. Okay, so he gave up a juicy million-dollar contract, how does this make him heroic?

Does he risk more than the poor college drop-out who signs up to find direction in his life? Or, like a friend of mine, join up after college because they feel it's the right thing to do?

I don't see the difference.

The only difference would be fame, popularity and the fact that his death was even more covered up than your average grunt.

[DavidtheDuke]

His intentions were noble (unless joining was primarily for glory, which is a tough sell considering a couple million is another venue for self-interested people), but for him to be a smart 'hero', he would've given the money to a worthwhile charity, then joined the military later one