[Resource] Turkish research (mainly ottoman)

[Harith]

k guyz.. so in my history class.. we are learnin about the late ottoman empire (1800-1923)... fortunately, my history teacher distributed a certified book by the IB diploma about the ottomans from the beginning up to 1923... it unfortunately doesnt contain much details about soldiers.... it gives us a good look at the society.. management.. internal dispute and political system... it also shows us how powerful they really were.

point is, I scanned through it and I found some info about seljuk of rum and the great seljuk... their warriors and how the ottomans adapted their methods.


If u guyz are interested I may be able to provide u with picture of the most important pages of the book for research.... I will also most defiantly help the economical side of the game to further develop.

[Tureuki]

Sure, every help is welcomed.

[wudang_clown]

Yes, show us what you got.

[Harith]

I'll try to scan through it during Thursday (If I finish everything) and upload 4-5 photos hopefully.. or atleast write a summery.


Dont worry, I do well in school haha

[nnnm]

Great and who is the Authar

[Harith]

ok sorry for the late upload... but for some reason the twcenter doesnt like rar...

[matmohair1]

[Harith]

haha thanks

its just the seljuks though... im gonna read it sometime this 3 weeks and hopefully post to u the most important parts

[matmohair1]

[Harith]

few things u might wanna consider:

1. Askaris (accordig to the book) were the ruling class of the ottoman society, much like the lords in england, and were usually military commanders. Some were also religious leaders who preached for islam in their society. Therefore we might wanna buff up the askaris a bit more.... just a thought.

2. devsirme were slave or levy warriors, mainly christian, who were taken as salves in teenage (14-17 but mainly 15) and depending on their abilities were given different duties. These duties were both administrative (as important as vizier) and military (janissary officer or soldier). However, the sultan was free to do whatever he wished with them (literally... anything) and he sometimes used them to divert attention or encourage disputes to his advantage. Therefore, they could be a levy military unit with high skills... more like spear militia because they were in the training process to be a janissary.

3. some changes in traits.
i. The Sultan's swordbearer was not a page who carried armor, but rather the official in charge of communication with the sultan.
ii. The Lords of the Stirrup who rode alongside the Sultan were military leaders such as the Aga of the janissary corps
iii. The Divan-i Humayun or 'the imperial council' or the 'imperial sofa' was a collection of viziers led by the Grand Vizier who formed the administrative body of the Ottoman state who sat down with the Sultan to discuss the affairs of the empire.

4. The Sipahi were a group of notable turkish cavalry, granted timers (fiefs or lands) by the sultan. Just to emphasis their position in the game.

5. The Askaris or Askeri (such as in the book) were usually the most men who held timars. Therefore, they were the most powerful which again makes me obliged to stress the need of increasing their role in the game and perhaps include a slot for recruiting them as general units in castle's stables or preferably city palaces.

Thats the ottoman era in general atleast up to the reign of Suleyman the magnificent.

[Iratern]

few things u might wanna consider:

1. Askaris (accordig to the book) were the ruling class of the ottoman society, much like the lords in england, and were usually military commanders. Some were also religious leaders who preached for islam in their society. Therefore we might wanna buff up the askaris a bit more.... just a thought.

2. devsirme were slave or levy warriors, mainly christian, who were taken as salves in teenage (14-17 but mainly 15) and depending on their abilities were given different duties. These duties were both administrative (as important as vizier) and military (janissary officer or soldier). However, the sultan was free to do whatever he wished with them (literally... anything) and he sometimes used them to divert attention or encourage disputes to his advantage. Therefore, they could be a levy military unit with high skills... more like spear militia because they were in the training process to be a janissary.

3. some changes in traits.
i. The Sultan's swordbearer was not a page who carried armor, but rather the official in charge of communication with the sultan.
ii. The Lords of the Stirrup who rode alongside the Sultan were military leaders such as the Aga of the janissary corps
iii. The Divan-i Humayun or 'the imperial council' or the 'imperial sofa' was a collection of viziers led by the Grand Vizier who formed the administrative body of the Ottoman state who sat down with the Sultan to discuss the affairs of the empire.

4. The Sipahi were a group of notable turkish cavalry, granted timers (fiefs or lands) by the sultan. Just to emphasis their position in the game.

5. The Askaris or Askeri (such as in the book) were usually the most men who held timars. Therefore, they were the most powerful which again makes me obliged to stress the need of increasing their role in the game and perhaps include a slot for recruiting them as general units in castle's stables or preferably city palaces.

Thats the ottoman era in general atleast up to the reign of Suleyman the magnificent.

Well as far as I know (and I have been to the Topkapi museum in Istanbul+plus reading+ dad is Turkish), all of the above are mostly accurate, just a fun fact Asker means soldier in Turkish. But unfortunately BC 3.0 from what I've read here on the forums will not include the ottoman era, although Turkish military systems are quite similar from dynasty to dynasty and empire to empire, with mostly just name changes, and IMO BC has done quiet a good job at reflecting them

But I don't agree with the comparison of the askeri and timar holding classes with European feudal lords. Although similar systems, timar was considerably different to a feudal fief. (And the role of Askari was highly controlled by the centralised government) The main difference being that the timar was owned by the central government and could be (and was!) taken back if the sipahi did not comply with his duties. Which other then military, included working the timar. The law was that if the timar was not worked for 3 years straight it would be taken back (arguably the most important aspect of the timar, since this law ensured the continuity of production).

Anyway before I go off on a random rant I would just like to say that keep reading the book, it has good stuff

[Harith]

Well as far as I know (and I have been to the Topkapi museum in Istanbul+plus reading+ dad is Turkish), all of the above are mostly accurate, just a fun fact Asker means soldier in Turkish. But unfortunately BC 3.0 from what I've read here on the forums will not include the ottoman era, although Turkish military systems are quite similar from dynasty to dynasty and empire to empire, with mostly just name changes, and IMO BC has done quiet a good job at reflecting them

But I don't agree with the comparison of the askeri and timar holding classes with European feudal lords. Although similar systems, timar was considerably different to a feudal fief. (And the role of Askari was highly controlled by the centralised government) The main difference being that the timar was owned by the central government and could be (and was!) taken back if the sipahi did not comply with his duties. Which other then military, included working the timar. The law was that if the timar was not worked for 3 years straight it would be taken back (arguably the most important aspect of the timar, since this law ensured the continuity of production).

Anyway before I go off on a random rant I would just like to say that keep reading the book, it has good stuff

k thanks, I just meant they were similar in terms of position in the court. Other than that, most of these information actually applies to the seljuks as well.... more or less lol.... and yes I know askeri means soldier... and its actually Arabic or atleast original an arabic word.