Canada is short $1 billion

[SoggyFrog]

Canada has reached a softwood lumber agreement with the United States that will "finally put an end to this conflict," Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced Thursday.

"I'm delighted to announce that we have reached an agreement," Harper told the House of Commons.

Harper said the U.S. had accepted Canada's key conditions. The agreement provides Canadian producers unrestricted access under current market conditions, he said. With prices at the current market, this means no quotas or tariffs, Harper added.

The U.S. would return $4 billion of the $5 billion in duties it has collected so far on Canadian lumber imports, Harper said.

He said the U.S. has agreed to a seven-year deal with the possibility of a renewal.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...ood060427.html

Most Canadians should know about this softwood lumber dispute that has been going on for the past few years. For those who don't, the US has been putting tariffs on Canadian lumber despite numerous rulings from NAFTA that those tariffs are illegal.

Now the Harper government () has backed down and the Canadian industry is only getting 4 of the $5 billion dollars that should be returned. ****ing Conservative sellouts.

EDIT: Globe and Mail article has far much more detail

[Mr.Flint]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...ood060427.html

Most Canadians should know about this softwood lumber dispute that has been going on for the past few years. For those who don't, the US has been putting tariffs on Canadian lumber despite numerous rulings from NAFTA that those tariffs are illegal.

Now the Harper government () has backed down and the Canadian industry is only getting 4 of the $5 billion dollars that should be returned. ****ing Conservative sellouts.

EDIT: Globe and Mail article has far much more detail

You are aware offcourse that its the Chretien goverment that is responsible for the whole mess? Harper atleast made some progress...

[SoggyFrog]

That is not progress. Under our North American Free Trade Agreement and this deal, our exports are somehow to be restricted to 34% of the American market. Settling on giving the United States $1 billion dollars of Canadian money is not progress.

I don't give a **** how long it takes, the Conservatives saying to the Americans that "We're wrong, you're right" is not progress. We've fallen as a country if we think 78% is good enough. Is Canada so weak that it can't fight for 100% when it deserves 100%?

Of course, we had to reach the deadline. Somewhere, somehow, there came a deadline where we had to agree with the Americans, on something that we've been right about for years. Instead of collecting, we are negotiating.

How about if I came into your home and stole a lot of your stuff. Would it be alright if I returned 78% of it? I can keep 22%, right? Because that's progress? How about if all the theives and burglars were allowed 22% of what they stole? Where do you think that sends society?

[Fianóglach]

4 Billion is better than zero, especially for all the men and women who depend on this industry to put food on the table and pay the bills. And I do agree it's not good, and Harper could have done better but at the same time I am glad this issue has been somewhat resolved, and 1 billion dollars isnt really that much, that it's worth further strain relations with Canada's largest trade partner. I think you are stretching this Harper appeasing America thing a bit too far, at any sign of Harper cooperating with the US Liberals scream injustice and damn Harper, but I don;t see the logic in being hostile to our closest ally, trading partner, and neighbour. It stinks of pride and ignorance, there is nothing shameful about a leader compromising with a friend, I for one would rather see that than the coward politics of former Liberal regimes, ignoring problems thinking they would go away doesnt work. I say good on Harper for getting things done, at least he is trying to improve this country and solve problems which is much more than can be said of Chretien or Martin.

[Cobra]

Ok, then give the $4 billion back, cancel the deal, put the tarrifs back on, back track them for every dime not payed, and keep on fighting until you win the entire sum if you'd like.
At the very least, even if recent rulings and agreements cancel out duties for the future, what makes them retroactive? If this is an ongoing problem for years, decades even? Then a resolution it seems should be a good sign.

[danzig]

So you prefer no progress at all? Your last goverment shoulders alot of blame for this deadlock be happy came to an agreement at all.

[SoggyFrog]

This isn't solving the problem, the problem is the power U.S. exercised over Canada in this affair. It'll only continue this way if Canada can't put its foot down on America's ********. If Canada can't exercise power of the U.S. then why don't we just give them everything we're good for? It's not any bit more different.

In terms of the lumber industry, I haven't read anything that says they are happy with this anyways.

Shares of Canadian forestry companies dropped in Toronto on Thursday, with International Forest Products Ltd. shares dropping 3.7 per cent to $7.80, Tembec Inc. shedding 9.52 per cent to $1.90, Canfor Corp. stock shedding 2.6 per cent to $14.36, and West Fraser Timber Co. Ltd. losing 1.27 per cent to $42.70.

BMO Nesbitt Burns analyst Stephen Atkinson said the recouped duty payments are not a "windfall," but rather money that Canadian companies were giving their rivals.

"Why would you give 22 per cent to your competition?" he said. "This money belongs to the companies and their shareholders, and the Canadian government is giving it away."

The framework deal negotiated Wednesday is "negative for many of the Canadian producers" said Robert Duncan, an analyst with MGI Securities.

"I didn't talk to anyone who was happy with it," another analyst, who did not want to be named, said of his discussions with lumber executives.

Ideologically, this is a disaster. There also seems to be little celebration over its immediate implications.

[Eric]

Bastard. Fecking, American Lapdog Traitor!! My uncle runs a logging company, it's going to be a bad year for him. Damn sellout. Argh!
Dear Stephen Harper: JUDAS!
That's what our 'beloved' prime minister is, a fecking JUDAS! The entire Conservative party is a bunch of Iscariots in my book! Benedict Arnolds, Judas Iscariots, Brutii, Cassii. That's what they are, traitors. I hope that Stephen Harper remembers that the deepest level of Hell is reserved for traitors to kin, city, benefactor, king and country. Satan has a head for every great traitor, and every mouth eternally chews on the betrayers. I hope The Beast enjoys Canadian beef.

[Mr.Flint]

Bastard. Fecking, American Lapdog Traitor!! My uncle runs a logging company, it's going to be a bad year for him. Damn sellout. Argh!
Dear Stephen Harper: JUDAS!
That's what our 'beloved' prime minister is, a fecking JUDAS! The entire Conservative party is a bunch of Iscariots in my book! Benedict Arnolds, Judas Iscariots, Brutii, Cassii. That's what they are, traitors. I hope that Stephen Harper remembers that the deepest level of Hell is reserved for traitors to kin, city, benefactor, king and country. Satan has a head for every great traitor, and every mouth eternally chews on the betrayers. I hope The Beast enjoys Canadian beef.

Sorry, but that place is reserved for Chretien and his lapdog Martin. :laughing:

[Eric]

How did Chretien and Martin betray our country? By all accounts they served it better than Harper has so far. They didn't back down to the Yanks so easily. They had steel in their backbone.

[Mr.Flint]

Are you aware that the softwood dispute is Chretien/Martin team fault? (i wont even go into what they have done to our military...)
The only steel in their backbone was is to cash in on the rediculous anti-american sentiment to get the votes... and they did everything the fuel the fire of that stupid sentiment...

[Eric]

So are you saying we should become as close chums as possible with the Yanks? I've got nothing against Canadian-American relations, but I don't think we should make ourselves their lapdog. And I would'nt put the full blame of the Softwood lumber dispute on those two. It was the Americans who placed illegal tarrifs on our lumber, which violated the NAFTA treaty. Numerous times NAFTA deemed the tarrifs illegal but the Americans refused to remove them. There should of been no discussion in the firstplace, you put illegal tarrifs on our lumber, they should of payed up. But nooo, the Americans back down to no one, even when they break various treaties and agreements in the process.

[Aristophanes]

This is so typical...

[Justinian]

So are you saying we should become as close chums as possible with the Yanks?

That's what, the 15th time you've said "Yanks"? That phrase is not only fifty years out of date, but also only refers to the population of the Northern States.

How about you show your political knowledge and use the proper name for citizens of the United States of America? In case you forgot it,

noun: American(s)
adjective: American

Cheers.

[Rusty Catapult]

Well, I would say Martin and Chrétien were greater traitors to our country because of their scandals, anti-americanism slur and mismanagement of number of issues, especially when it came to the military (well, Martin wasn't that bad on that part).
Anyway, I also have to say that it was rather "weak" of Harper to bend over like this. But like others have said, we might have ended up with nothing too. We have to face the fact that the American government doesn't care about justice or equality, unless it fits their agenda. As long as 70% to 80% of our foreign trade (which is something like 40% of our economy) is with the US, the Americans have us by the balls. As they do with various parts of the world.
Ironic that the main advocate for free trade resolves itself to such protectionnist policies.

Anyway... the conservatives are only there so the liberals can take a break and reorganize themselves.

[Admiral Nelson]

So you prefer no progress at all? Your last goverment shoulders alot of blame for this deadlock be happy came to an agreement at all.

Please enlighten me, in what way were the evil Liberals responsible for the US tarifs on Canadian lumber?

Well, I would say Martin and Chrétien were greater traitors to our country because of their scandals, anti-americanism slur and mismanagement of number of issues, especially when it came to the military (well, Martin wasn't that bad on that part).

Every government has scandals, and, obviously, as time progresses, and the party stays in office for multiple terms, they become more frequent. I do not personally hold Chrétien or Martin responsible for the Sponsorship Scandal. AFAIK Justice John Gomery acquitted them both. I won't touch on the 'anti-americanism slur' and your problems with the way the Liberals funded the military, since they're totally unrelated.

Why not just come to terms with the fact that Harper managed to bring an end to this farce, in one month something the Liberals were not able to in 6 years.

Getting a bad deal today is not as good as getting a fair deal tomorrow. I am confident that on this particular issue Canada could have won.

I'm glad that Harper at least is an economist and will do deals that benefit our economy, and not a businessman like Martin who primarily sees profit first as the objective, sometimes at the expense of the economy.

You seems awfully quick to trust Harper more than Martin simply because you think he is an "economist" rather than a "businessman". Where did you get that from?

Martin did a remarkable job in his time as Finance Minister, and that experience benifitted Canada when he became PM. (Yes, admit it- we have a massive government budget surplus, which the Conservatives will use to make tax cuts that real economists don't even think will help the economy (aka 1% GST cut), while happily taking credit for the Liberal's work) I doubt that things will really get better with Harper at the helm.

Also, where did you get the idea that Martin acted like a businessman who forsook the Canadian economy for personal gain?

[danzig]

Please enlighten me, in what way were the evil Liberals responsible for the US tarifs on Canadian lumber?

Because their constant anti american rhetoric killed any sort of desire by the US to compromise or even solve the issue? Why compromise with a guy who will probably just run and tell his citizens how he made the evil giant next door give in to him. The US could just shrug it off since it wasnt worth their time to bother with such nonsense, a new leader who doesnt basis his existences ripping on the US made it alot easier for a deal to be made.

Getting a bad deal today is not as good as getting a fair deal tomorrow. I am confident that on this particular issue Canada could have won.

At what cost and would it be worth it? I dunno do some Canadians actually *like* there being tension between the two nations?

[SoggyFrog]

2 : a native or inhabitant of the U.S.

There is no error in Eric's vocabulary, even if it is at all vulgar.

See it this way: Canadian lumber no longer has a right in the U.S. Merely, its allowance has been bought for seven years. That is not resolution.

[Justinian]

Yank is a word used in the UK, Ireland and Australia in a fairly derogatory manner to refer to Americans.

It seems a fanatical Canadian nationalist is using ... A BRITISH WORD!

Which is also derogatory and disrespectful. If you want us to respect your country, respect ours too. Two way street buddy.

[Eric]

It seems a fanatical Canadian nationalist is using ... A BRITISH WORD!

Which is also derogatory and disrespectful. If you want us to respect your country, respect ours too. Two way street buddy.

Oh what respect will Canada ever get anyways? Really? In todays world no respects the quiet, little guy who never gets into needless fights, they respect the big guy who fights with anyone and everyone at the slighest chance and then brags about it later. We're run by a fanatically religious, spineless sell-out. Our economy is in the toilet, our army is a pathetic shadow of what it used to be. And we're slowly, but steadily becoming the United States' lapdog. To sit quietly while he strokes us, to take our meager meal per day, and to do whatever master wants, whenever. It doesn't matter if we want to our not, we do what master says. I think i'm going to move to Tasmania, no one evers bothers the Tasmanians over anything really.