If you think about it Hitler...

[Toho]

compared to Lenin and the Stalin duo, why is the media so per-occupied of constantly demonizing the Nazi when Stalin probably got a VIP sit in the deepest pit of hell? Hitler at least brought some prosperity to his people and so did Mussolini but all Stalin did was kill everybody that looked or felt the wrong way. if you i had a choice of living in either Germany or Russia during those times i would definitely pick German.

now i am not saying the Holocaust was cool and all but the Jews were only an extremely small population suffering from Hitlers racist views while Stalin just slaughtered millions. it was only towards the end of the war did the Nazis really started their mass genocide.

so why is it Stalin virtually gets ignored while Hitler and his silly mustache have been shoved down our throats for the past 60 years? and hell lets include those Japanese too, they weren't exactly all that great either...

[Stark of Winterfell]

Because Stalin and Mao killed their own people (sad but true). Also, they were supposedly attempting progress, and so it can seem to be more of a horrendously tragic accident. As opposed to Hitler, who waged an aggressive war determined to wipe several groups of people off the face of the earth completely. Intention matters.

Also, Stalin brought benefits to Russia-industrialization. That's undeniable. Of course, you look at the human cost...but the point remains. Hitler brought prosperity by building a war machine.

And for the record, you're entirely wrong on your history. The Nazi genocide really began to gain steam as soon as the Nazis invaded Russia.

[Ardruire Iacób]

they were supposedly attempting progress ... As opposed to Hitler

"The new age of today is at work on a new human type.” - Hitler

The Nazis were attempting social revolution on an astounding scale. As perverse as it was, they were convinced that they were creating a new world, better than any other, through the mass destruction and subjugation of nations. All of their social projects can be taken as a Positivist pursuit of utopia, using science and technology to remake humanity.

[Claudius Gothicus]

"The new age of today is at work on a new human type.” - Hitler

The Nazis were attempting social revolution on an astounding scale. As perverse as it was, they were convinced that they were creating a new world, better than any other, through the mass destruction and subjugation of nations. All of their social projects can be taken as a Positivist pursuit of utopia, using science and technology to remake humanity.

That's a low punch, it's like calling the Nazis Nietzschean Inspired because of Heidegger's involvement.

[Ardruire Iacób]

That's a low punch, it's like calling the Nazis Nietzschean Inspired because of Heidegger's involvement.

They weren't?

I mean, Hannah Arendt did see something of the sort (open to correction here).

[Claudius Gothicus]

They weren't?

I mean, Hannah Arendt did see something of the sort (open to correction here).

Well... Nietzsche aimed at the liberation of the individual(not the nation), in this he was a strong individualist and a defender of individual self-reflexion in search of a liberated will(Zarathustra) from the mediocrity of modern life, actively quarreled with Wagner over the latter's involvement with anti-semitic nationalism, was an skeptic about the German Empire and called for moral nihilism or perspectivism.

The problem with Nietzsche's writings is that most of these were left to his anti-semitic sister(who later manipulated the whole corpus into helping Nazi philosophers), used aphorisms that could very be misinterpreted as calls for warmongering or destruction(he's hate for mediocrity might have helped to approve of this view) and of course put forward the Ubersmench concept, an easily manipulated concept indeed. With such a profile and the active readings of Heidegger you have a nice cocktail for philosophical disaster, that's what Bertrand Russell mistakenly attacked and denigrated.

[Frederich Barbarossa]

Because Stalin and Mao killed their own people (sad but true). Also, they were supposedly attempting progress, and so it can seem to be more of a horrendously tragic accident. As opposed to Hitler, who waged an aggressive war determined to wipe several groups of people off the face of the earth completely. Intention matters.

Also, Stalin brought benefits to Russia-industrialization. That's undeniable. Of course, you look at the human cost...but the point remains. Hitler brought prosperity by building a war machine.

And for the record, you're entirely wrong on your history. The Nazi genocide really began to gain steam as soon as the Nazis invaded Russia.

Honestly it did start in Russia with around 1 million, but I think he meant Genocide in the camps which really did start full on 42 onwards. Most holocaust deaths were actually after 42 if im not mistaken.

[Toho]

i though the genocide start at around 1942? but i guess i just find it shocking that 6 000 000 being killed because of being Jewish is more evil as opposed to the millions (not sure how much but i am sure it far, far surpasses the holocaust) because of political opposition/being too rich/ being called something else/ hunger/ civil war/ somebody accused you of patriotism and etc .

Hitler only targeted Jews while Stalin targeted no one and everyone...
i still think Stalin deserves more movies than Hitler...

edit: damn i am making a lot of spelling/grammar mistakes, guess its time to sleep ^^

[Stark of Winterfell]

As I said, it's mainly due to ideology and intent. The idea that a nation's full potential could be used to invade neighboring countries, hunt down people of a certain ethnicity/religion, and exterminate them is in a way more frightening than the fact that a paranoid, cruel madman became a dictator. People like that exist, and that is known. Stalin only might have committed genocide against the Ukrainians, depending on how much of the famine was intentional vs. just incompetence. Also, Hitler targeted Jews most of all, but Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled people, Poles, and especially Russians also suffered greatly. Russian prisoners of war were exterminated as often as Jews.

Also, if you're thinking movies, what sort of movie would you make about Stalin? Hitler is a good antagonist, because WWII is a good vs. evil scenario thanks to the Nazis ideology and actions that made even the Soviet Union a force for good. Stalin is a crazy paranoid people who has anyone he considers a threat killed. Not good for movie making.

And the genocide started summer and fall of 1941 with the Einsatzgruppen. 1942 is when the death camps began to go operational.

[Closetu]

Also, if you're thinking movies, what sort of movie would you make about Stalin? Hitler is a good antagonist, because WWII is a good vs. evil scenario thanks to the Nazis ideology and actions that made even the Soviet Union a force for good. Stalin is a crazy paranoid people who has anyone he considers a threat killed. Not good for movie making.

I agree. Soviets were often portrayed as deliverers of Jews in many Holocaust movies - Out of the Ashes, the Pianist, and Life is Beautiful to name a few.

Honestly, the Holocaust makes good drama and there are over 100s of movies made since 1940s, milking to its last drop of what its worth even today. Unlike Commies rounding up and shooting in mass, there's not much you can do with that in a movie.

[Ardruire Iacób]

I agree. Soviets were often portrayed as deliverers of Jews in many Holocaust movies - Out of the Ashes, the Pianist, and Life is Beautiful to name a few.

Schindler's List?

'Don't go east, that's for sure. They hate you there'

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Short answer: The majority of the world didn't fight a World War against Russia.

Also, Hitler did not persecute just the Jews. He also targeted Catholics, gypsies, communists, and an endless list of other associations. Do not think just because the Jews were the primary target of the Holocaust that they were the only ones to suffer by it.

[Derbiean]

Short answer: The majority of the world didn't fight a World War against Russia.

Also, Hitler did not persecute just the Jews. He also targeted Catholics, gypsies, communists, and an endless list of other associations. Do not think just because the Jews were the primary target of the Holocaust that they were the only ones to suffer by it.

I'll be surprised if this is true, Friedrich Paulus was a Roman Catholic and this said to be why he refused to commit suicide when Hitler promoted him to Field Marshal expecting him to do so as no German soldier of this rank had ever been captured, unless the likes Paulus were exempt from being targeted?

[Col. Tartleton]

The Holocaust was 12 million people. That 6 million Jews get the focus is kind of suspect, but its not like it didn't happen and as a small community of people worldwide that was a pretty massive blow. Hitler damn near led to the killing of all the Jews in Europe.

The only way I'll let him off the hook is that he was actually mentally ill or so drug addled that he was totally insane. In which case the blame should not rest on Hitler but on the useful idiots who facilitated his delusions. I mean you can't really blame a loon for being outrageously crazy if that's the case. If he was totally rational and just a psychopath rather than both a psychopath and psychotic I think it's his largely his fault.

I think Hitler was deranged.
Worse, I think Stalin was just that cold.

[Admiral Piett]

It's why I find the concept of people identifying themselves as Stalinists as laughable.

[Balian76]

so why is it Stalin virtually gets ignored while Hitler and his silly mustache have been shoved down our throats for the past 60 years? and hell lets include those Japanese too, they weren't exactly all that great either...

The Japanese were saints if you compare them to Stalin and Hitler.

Hitler and Humane in the same sentence that's hilarious, I've got pictures of a little Hitler as an alter boy, mustache and all and a ray of sun shining down on him.

[Stark of Winterfell]

The Japanese were saints if you compare them to Stalin and Hitler.

Hitler and Humane in the same sentence that's hilarious, I've got pictures of a little Hitler as an alter boy, mustache and all and a ray of sun shining down on him.

What? Whaaattt? Did you miss the whole thread in VV about the Japanese brutality in World War II? I suggest you check it out, it will be quite enlightening for you.

im talking about from the 1920s all the way to 1940s if you compare the situation in those countries those 10s of millions of "nameless" peasants compared to jews and other minority groups in Germany...

hitler brought some peace and prosperity to his people while pushing his racist view (disgusting as they were) but Hitler and Lenin? those guys caused social cleansing of multiple of origins, killed potential/imaginary enemies, miss managed so badly because of their terrible and downright insane governing beliefs that pushed the country in numerous blood sheds and a civil war. 5 mil here, 6 mil there and another 12 there and then 20-30 mil here because of the war and the list just kept growing even after the 1940s...

Lenin certainly killed less than Stalin, and less than Hitler. And by civil war I presume you mean the Russian Civil War? Wasn't Lenin's fault Russia was getting teared to pieces in World War I, which was the whole reason he gained power-he ended Russia's involvement in that war. And I'd say Hitler gets the credit for the dead in World War II, since he started that war. And after World War II Stalin's killings slowed down quite a bit. He was gearing up for another purge, but he died/was killed first.

Also, I find the idea of Hitler bringing peace and prosperity to his people laughable when he just pissed it all down the drain half a decade later by waging war against half the world and getting his country bombed to ash.

Also, why haven't you mentioned Mao? His Cultural Revolution killed millions as well. Or mention Tojo and the Japanese. They weren't so bad, they only killed 20 million Chinamen and hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Filipinos and Indonesians.

[brandbll]

The Japanese were saints if you compare them to Stalin and Hitler.

You sir are 100% completely wrong. Time for you to hit the books...

[Exarch]

cynically, i will posit the theory that the life of a jew or a german homosexual/intellectual was worth far far more than the life of some nameless peasant in Stalin's Russia or Mao's China.

it sure explains the world's inaction when it comes to the palestine issue

[Condottiere 40K]

Hitler was a guy who let his fantasies get the better of him, and tapped into a wellspring of latent antisemiticism and national humiliation of a directionless country, giving a focus for the vision his followers could believe in.

And the Germans wanted to believe him, and ignored the more distasteful aspects of the regime.

I can't imagine what being a Russian was like under Stalin. but I bet Orwell's 1984 is probably as close as you can get. The Germans were told they were gods who needed to purify their society.

There's a subconscious response to a German accent. you take them very seriously. They also have nifty tailors. Then you contrast that with the Russian experience.