Nationalism

[Xiaodun]

Patriotism n.

1. Love of country; devotion to the welfare of one's country; the virtues and actions of a patriot; the passion which inspires one to serve one's country.

This is the one I mean in this particular topic.

My question is very simple.

Why should one love a country?

In fact, what is a country anyways?

And why should people love it?

[Habelo]

You can love your country becuse everyone in your country look alike, talk the same languge as you, same race. You dont feel holden to your own languge wich you have been raised in?
I see myself as i patriot, i love the swedish seas, the swedish untouched forests, the rivers, the wind on the summer, the snow ball casting in the winter and i love my languge, i will fight for the swedish culture so it doesnt fade away. But why i love just the sweden and not any other country? I guess its becuse its here i was raised and born. You always love your home if u got sweat thoughts about it...
Thought i do understand you completly.

[Kaweh]

You can love your country becuse everyone in your country look alike, talk the same languge as you, same race. You dont feel holden to your own languge wich you have been raised in?
I see myself as i patriot, i love the swedish seas, the swedish untouched forests, the rivers, the wind on the summer, the snow ball casting in the winter and i love my languge, i will fight for the swedish culture so it doesnt fade away. But why i love just the sweden and not any other country? I guess its becuse its here i was raised and born. You always love your home if u got sweat thoughts about it...
Thought i do understand you completly.

I think your right in there, although I don't like the expression "race" because there's only one, human race. But you're right about language, culture,...
And especially you're right when you say "I guess it's because it's here I was raised and born", I can second that, because I, although I have Greek and Persian linage, am Austrian through and through, because I was born here, damn it, I started to read the Edda two days ago (very interesting) and made myself a Thorhammer (wooden)! I hate it when someone starts arguing (sp) about having to protect a "race", but there's nothing wrong in loving the country you were born in and it's culture, yeah, I'd say it's even your duty, in a way...

K.K

[Oldgamer]

Interesting questions!

PLEASE NOTE: All of you American Civil War buffs, I am not trying to turn this thread into a Civil War thread!

Prior to the American Civil War, most people believed that their country was the state they lived in. If my family lived in Illinois (which it did), they considered their country to be Illinois, and not the United States. However, this concept is so foreign to us, today, that the producers of Gods & Generals had to take considerable time explaining why General Lee laid down uniform of the US Army, and took up the uniform and sword of Virginia. Virginia was his country, you see.

After the Civil War, the notion of "state=country" fell into disfavor, and disuse. Most of the legal citizens of America, today, regard the United States as their country.

However, one of the dangers of our age is that illegal immigration, with the enormous influx of the Spanish language and Mexican flags, will drive people to start thinking of "country" in a racial sense ... my country is my race and the culture stemming from it. The stage will be set for new civil strife - perhaps, civil war - in America.

Back to your questions, though. Your country is all that you have. If your country falls, you fall with it. This has been proven through thousands of years of human history. I love my country, have fought and bled for it, and would die for it ... if necessary ... because I have a family, and I fear for them, if my country falls.

[Kaweh]

Your country is all that you have. If your country falls, you fall with it. This has been proven through thousands of years of human history. I love my country, have fought and bled for it, and would die for it ... if necessary ... because I have a family, and I fear for them, if my country falls.

Well, "proven through thousands of years of history"... Where the old Germans nationalistic? Did the want to die and bled for "Germania" to stop the Romans? Well, they died and bled to stop the Romans... but they did not die for one leader, for one country.... The term "national" and the great "Nations" themselves (France, Germany,...) themselves occured first in the Medieval times... Thousands of years of history, eh?

K.K

[Oldgamer]

Well, "proven through thousands of years of history"... Where the old Germans nationalistic? Did the want to die and bled for "Germania" to stop the Romans? Well, they died and bled to stop the Romans... but they did not die for one leader, for one country.... The term "national" and the great "Nations" themselves (France, Germany,...) themselves occured first in the Medieval times... Thousands of years of history, eh?

K.K

The old tribes of Germania were just that, tribes. One's tribe was one's country. And they made the Romans bleed so badly, that the Romans decided Germania wasn't worth the trouble.

When these tribes fought as one against the Romans, each man was fighting for his country, for his tribe, his clan, his family. Had they fallen to the Romans, as did the Gauls, they would have lost everything ... their lives, their land, their freedoms.

I agree with you about the coinage of the term "nation". But men have fought for their countries for, yes, thousands of years, and long before anyone thought to apply the word "nation" to their country.

[Ahiga]

However, one of the dangers of our age is that illegal immigration, with the enormous influx of the Spanish language and Mexican flags, will drive people to start thinking of "country" in a racial sense ... my country is my race and the culture stemming from it. The stage will be set for new civil strife - perhaps, civil war - in America.

Back to your questions, though. Your country is all that you have. If your country falls, you fall with it. This has been proven through thousands of years of human history. I love my country, have fought and bled for it, and would die for it ... if necessary ... because I have a family, and I fear for them, if my country falls.

WAM! BAM! Thank you ma'mn...I mean man.

You put well into words the concern I have over it. That seeing yourself as anything other than American will lead to sectionalism, and conflict once again.

I am mixed on nationalism. In certain cases it can be used to whip you and your citizens up into a frenzy and to die for the wishes of others who place the mask of it being good for the nation upon it (Iraq, as well the conquest of the Nazi's during ww2), but in other cases, it can still whip you up into a frenzy, but do so in the need to remove the division of individual views and adopt a universal one for the country.

I tend to see a divide in nationalism and national pride. Nationalism is essentially Fundementalism. It punishes anyone who strays from the herd and follows blindlingly towards what other's tell you is good for the country.

National pride is a pride of your country kept in check, where your pride in the country does not keep you from being an individual with individual views and ideals.

[Xiaodun]

You can love your country becuse everyone in your country look alike, talk the same languge as you, same race. You dont feel holden to your own languge wich you have been raised in?
I see myself as i patriot, i love the swedish seas, the swedish untouched forests, the rivers, the wind on the summer, the snow ball casting in the winter and i love my languge, i will fight for the swedish culture so it doesnt fade away. But why i love just the sweden and not any other country? I guess its becuse its here i was raised and born. You always love your home if u got sweat thoughts about it...
Thought i do understand you completly.

And then, that is enough to drive people into joining the military, risking their lives just to kill others? Nationalism makes little sense logically. Why should one actually go to war because of their nation? They should join the military because they dont wont their families to be murdered in their sleep. It boggles my mind that someone would want to join the military for some notion of "serving the nation".

All nations are made from their populace. Even though we may dispise some things that our nations do and resist it in every level, we are still responsible in some way for the actions of our nation. We are the nation.

But loving the nation? We are the nation. Is it just me that thinks its narcisstic and selfish to proclaim their love for their nation and how they are willing to die for it and such? Sure we all have such ideas, but is it just me who thinks its a bit rubbing it in people's faces?

[Oldgamer]

And then, that is enough to drive people into joining the military, risking their lives just to kill others? Nationalism makes little sense logically. Why should one actually go to war because of their nation? They should join the military because they dont wont their families to be murdered in their sleep. It boggles my mind that someone would want to join the military for some notion of "serving the nation".

All nations are made from their populace. Even though we may dispise some things that our nations do and resist it in every level, we are still responsible in some way for the actions of our nation. We are the nation.

But loving the nation? We are the nation. Is it just me that thinks its narcisstic and selfish to proclaim their love for their nation and how they are willing to die for it and such? Sure we all have such ideas, but is it just me who thinks its a bit rubbing it in people's faces?

I have served my country in the military, and out of it. My purpose has never been to "rub people's face" in it.

Don't you think that if the people are the nation, that is in itself a good reason to love the nation?

In the United States, people join an all-volunteer army. There hasn't been a military draft since Richard Nixon's Administration. If people wish to join the military, their reasons are their own. Some might just want to rub it in your face, but I've seldom met American veterans who felt this way. As others have pointed out, our military consists of people of all races, ethnicities, genders, and social levels.

Habelo has pointed out his love of country, and his country is more homogeneous than the United States. There's times that I wish for this, too. But then my children come over, with my grandchildren (one of whom is half Puerto Ricano, and one on the way that is half black ... children are children, you know what I mean?), and the non-homogenous nature of society doesn't bother me.

[wilpuri]

Deathdoom, wasn't there just some new law passed in Japan that decreed that Japanese schools should teach children to love their country?

google:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...4845902355B215

[Tom Paine]

Don't you think that if the people are the nation, that is in itself a good reason to love the nation?

Only in a democracy, and I don't live really in a democracy. 39% of the voters last General Election elected a man who now has an absolute majority and can do what he likes with pretty much impunity.

[Bwaho]

Only in a democracy, and I don't live really in a democracy. 39% of the voters last General Election elected a man who now has an absolute majority and can do what he likes with pretty much impunity.

a direct democracy would be highly ineffecient. It could work for smaller villages but not on a grand national level. Perhaps if Britain was split into several mini-nations that rules themselves then direct democracy might work.

and the non-homogenous nature of society doesn't bother me

would you agree that America is socially unstable? you got most ethnic groups staying with their own kind, you got areas that are "black" and "white". American television likes to put on a show about how America is much happier because there are more ethnic groups in the country. Reality gives a quite different picture.

You got TV shows that are supposedly bringing ethnic groups together, you know when it's usually a black guy making racial remarks about white people. This does not indicate that racial issues are solved. You are only putting on a show to try and pretend that the problems are gone.

I went to a school that had a large amount of immigrants. I could never see what was so great about this diversity. I can see more benefits with a homogenous society.

I see homogenous countries having a greater sense of belonging and an intact culture.

[Oldgamer]

Only in a democracy, and I don't live really in a democracy. 39% of the voters last General Election elected a man who now has an absolute majority and can do what he likes with pretty much impunity.

Love the nation, because the nation is the people, Squeakus. It's alright to detest the leader. God knows I detested Bill Clinton, but my love for the American people never wavered, during his long 8 years in office.

@Habelo,

i would never go to war just becuse some dumbass politican wants me to go to war. I would only go to war for my country if i defended everything i owned, my seas, my rivers my trees. Otherwise i would just be going to war of either greed ore some stupid twist.

I have a special place in my heart for Sweden. My family would never have survived the wars of the Reformation, had it not been for Gustavus Adolphus. Also, my church would not exist today, had it not been for the intervention by this man ... an intervention that cost him his life.

There's no doubt that this great King didn't go to war completely to save northern Europe for Lutheranism. I'm sure that he had some ulterior motives in mind. But had he not gone to war, would an atlas of the world giving facts about Sweden today read, "Religion: Roman Catholic"?

(And before anyone who is Catholic here gets testy over the last statement, above, I spent much of my life as a Catholic, and I love the Church. So why am I a Lutheran today? First, because I deeply feel the call to Ordained Ministry, for one. For another, because Gustavus Adolphus went to war!)

[Habelo]

Accourding to biology class there are a number of races in the human SPECIE. And kaweh i think its cool that you have done a thorshammer to yourself, i dont really care about races(apart from girls) only culture. I only brought it up becuse there are alot of people that do think that race have a big connection with nationality.
And oldgamer, i can see that your country is fading away, sometime soon there will not be any american culture, only mexicans everywhere!

[Kaweh]

That's right. And it's not a bad thing to love his country, I just wanted to clarify the term "nation" a bit, and that it's not really old...

K.K

Double posts merged.

Accourding to biology class there are a number of races in the human SPECIE.

That's obsolete then, because it's proven that there's only one human race. Every difference beetween "races" is caused by circumstances like hot/cold country, much food(tall people), not a lot of food in the area (small people), etc, but not by any differences considering genes.

And kaweh i think its cool that you have done a thorshammer to yourself, i dont really care about races(apart from girls) only culture.

Exactly my opinion!

K.K

[Tiwaz]

Why love ones country...

Why not love ones country?

My country has my family, my wealth, my past and it is where I am most comfortable. I would not change it to anything. But with freedoms and rights comes responsibility and patriot is one who is willing to take that responsibility as unavoidable part of life.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

I'll try and answer your questions in first person.

1) I love my country because my ansestors shed their blood to carve this out.
2) My country is roughly the territory my ethnic/racial forefathers conquered through centuries of war - until they were conquered themselves.
3) I love my country because it has provided me with freedom, because I am respected here and refer to #1.

[Lord Tomyris]

I'm proud of my country's achievements; and love the British archetype!

[Habelo]

I'm proud of my country's achievements; and love the British archetype!

But why would you feel connected to your country? And why is it "your" country?
What makes it your country?...
Just simple questions, im just intrested.

[Tostig]

Why, because we're subject of the Queen and citizens of Great Britain, given the vote, various perks and security in exchange for taxes.