SOPA and PROTECT IP Act: Internet Censorship

[berriez]

So, some peeps in Congress are contemplating on censoring the Internet.

SOPA: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3261/show

Summary:
This bill would establish a system for taking down websites that the Justice Department determines to be dedicated to copyright infringment. The DoJ or the copyright owner would be able to commence a legal action against any site they deem to have "only limited purpose or use other than infringement," and the DoJ would be allowed to demand that search engines, social networking sites and domain name services block access to the targeted site. It would also make unauthorized web streaming of copyrighted content a felony with a possible penalty up to five years in prison. This bill combines two separate Senate bills -- S.968 and S.978 -- into one big House bill.

PROTECT IP Act: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s968/show

Summary:
Establishes a system for taking down websites that the Justice Department determines to be "dedicated to infringing activities." The DoJ or the copyright owner would be able to commence a legal action against the alleged infringer and the DoJ would be allowed to demand that search engines, social networking sites and domain name services block access to the targeted site. In some cases, action could be taken to block sites without first allowing the alleged infringer to defend themselves in court.

This is on that Iran, China, and Syria level.

[Yosemite]

with a possible penalty up to five years in prison

oh boy here we go

[Armenum]

Will you get arrested if you steal a movie or video game from a store? Yes. Same should go for the cyber world - the cyber world is not exempt from the law.

[(s)AINT]

Will you get arrested if you steal a movie or video game from a store? Yes. Same should go for the cyber world - the cyber world is not exempt from the law.

Um, that's not on the same level as stealing..

[Armenum]

Um, that's not on the same level as stealing..

Why not? In both instances you take a copyrighted item without paying money to the creator.

[Enemy of the State]

Why not? In both instances you take a copyrighted item without paying money to the creator.

Property exists to manage scarcity. Information is not scarce. By downloading a game, you are not depriving anyone of theirs. Intellectual property does not really exist, in fact it is a violation of actual property rights. It puts restrictions on what we can do with our property. Copyright and patents are government granted monopolies and do not exist in a free market.

[AqD]

Why not? In both instances you take a copyrighted item without paying money to the creator.

When you steal, the owner lose something. But in cyber world the thief gains while the owner loses nothing. You could say he loses potential income but in many cases the thieves are simply unable to pay.

[MathiasOfAthens]

When you steal, the owner lose something. But in cyber world the thief gains while the owner loses nothing. You could say he loses potential income but in many cases the thieves are simply unable to pay.

Thats all well and good mate but SOPA will have unintended consequences, notably giving the Attourney General more powers to systematically block websites. Also for some reason we are going to give the movie and record industry the power to blacklist as well?

Internet startups are predicted to fall if this is passed. The costs and the risks are not worth it.

[Yosemite]

Will you get arrested if you steal a movie or video game from a store? Yes. Same should go for the cyber world - the cyber world is not exempt from the law.

explain this
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...est-friend.ars

There's something really ed up in this law, when big tech companies like Google or Mozilla or Facebook(the big money makers of Web) start criticizing directly it means that somehow a barrier of logical discretion has been surpassed.

Also, could this actually affect TWC if taken to it's logical conclusion? I mean, we have lots of threads were copyrighted videos derived from Youtube are systematically posted and listened to.

a bunch of retarded old politicians try to "fix" the new technologies
we only get retarded stuff and people trying to defend such retarded stuff, despite all the big internet players being against it

[Armenum]

explain this
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...est-friend.ars

The demographic is pretty expected. The people who do torrent movies, music will tend to be more acquainted with technology, be a younger generation, and given they are torrenting music, movies, be more prone to spend money on it outside of torrenting. Again, them paying sometimes doesn't justify the times that they don't pay. They can just make it up. A robber who steals something, may at another time buy some milk. His purchase of milk doesn't justify the robbery that he did.

[Border Patrol]

The demographic is pretty expected. The people who do torrent movies, music will tend to be more acquainted with technology, be a younger generation, and given they are torrenting music, movies, be more prone to spend money on it outside of torrenting. Again, them paying sometimes doesn't justify the times that they don't pay. They can just make it up. A robber who steals something, may at another time buy some milk. His purchase of milk doesn't justify the robbery that he did.

Copying something and stealing are not the same thing. Fail analogy. Fail post. Piracy deprives someone of nothing... unless you're using their bandwidth, which is the exception rather than the rule. Please learn how networks function.

[HissingNewt]

Copying something and stealing are not the same thing. Fail analogy. Fail post. Piracy deprives someone of nothing... unless you're using their bandwidth, which is the exception rather than the rule. Please learn how networks function.

It deprives them of profit in the same way a knockoff does. I agree that it's not theft, but to claim that it harms nobody is false.

[Yosemite]

The demographic is pretty expected. The people who do torrent movies, music will tend to be more acquainted with technology, be a younger generation, and given they are torrenting music, movies, be more prone to spend money on it outside of torrenting. Again, them paying sometimes doesn't justify the times that they don't pay. They can just make it up. A robber who steals something, may at another time buy some milk. His purchase of milk doesn't justify the robbery that he did.

you're finding excuses
for you one downloaded copy = one stolen copy
i should download one billion mw3 copies so that activision goes out of business



the only reason they spend so much is because they can test before paying

simple as that

[Heathen Hammer]

Will you get arrested if you steal a movie or video game from a store? Yes. Same should go for the cyber world - the cyber world is not exempt from the law.

Except its not stealing - its copying. If I make an exact copy of something I'm not stealing it. Same principle should be applied to cyber world.

[HissingNewt]

Except its not stealing - its copying. If I make an exact copy of something I'm not stealing it. Same principle should be applied to cyber world.

Except you don't have the right to make that copy (copyright). That's why it's illegal.

[Heathen Hammer]

Except you don't have the right to make that copy (copyright). That's why it's illegal.

I never said that piracy itself is legal. However, de facto piracy is not theft, and should not be considered as such by law.
At the same time, we have to live with the fact that times when copyright could be effective are long gone. Such laws would not only fail at preventing piracy, but also ultimately infringe on free speech and provide further basis for limitations of freedoms in the name of "copyright". We just have to chose between the two evils (copyright infringements and overall limitations of freedom) and chose a lesser one (rich copyrights owners being able to afford only 9 golden Ferrari's a month instead of 10).

[HissingNewt]

I never said that piracy itself is legal. However, de facto piracy is not theft, and should not be considered as such by law.
At the same time, we have to live with the fact that times when copyright could be effective are long gone. Such laws would not only fail at preventing piracy, but also ultimately infringe on free speech and provide further basis for limitations of freedoms in the name of "copyright". We just have to chose between the two evils (copyright infringements and overall limitations of freedom) and chose a lesser one (rich copyrights owners being able to afford only 9 golden Ferrari's a month instead of 10).

I'm not entirely sure what "de facto piracy" means. Could you elaborate on that a bit please? I actually do agree with a lot of the other stuff you're saying, though. Copyright law is getting out of hand now, but many of the current rules are fair. Penalties are outrageously high (and usually get overturned by judges I believe) and the length of copyright is getting ridiculous, but those are the main grievances I can agree with.

[charles the hammer]

Except its not stealing - its copying. If I make an exact copy of something I'm not stealing it. Same principle should be applied to cyber world.

Wouldn't that legalize pirating? I can not see that as a good thing for companies.

[Balian76]

Wouldn't that legalize pirating? I can not see that as a good thing for companies.

Well some companies benefit, in some instances piracy has helped make a product the standard, Photoshop wouldn't be the industry standard if it wasn't for piracy, it is estimated that 40% of Photoshop users are legit (I've actually read figures which quote as low as 10%), and the majority of the other 60% probably wouldn't buy the product if they couldn't pirate it therefore PS wouldn't be the industry standard because most people would be using cheaper products, if they couldn't pirate it. It also has other benefits to Adobe in that a lot of these illegal PS users are sharing their knowledge of the program helping again for a complex program to become the standard.

Bill Gates in years past has said if people are going to steal products he would prefer them to be stealing microsoft, it helps create a monopoly.

The subject isn't as black and white as it seems.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Will you get arrested if you steal a movie or video game from a store? Yes. Same should go for the cyber world - the cyber world is not exempt from the law.

No it's not the same, the true theft is the act of by ownership keeping things to yourself.