Chariots are again ultimate cavalry killer:-((

[4th Regiment]

Disappointing…I have tested chariots against one of the best cavalry around- Thessalonians, and it was massacre with no singe chariot lost. Of course in real life any cavalry would annihilate slow maneuverable chariots running around them. And again footmen are getting up to fight after being hit by wheal blades or thrown in the air 3m. A totally opposite effect of chariots, and it was old problem in vanilla RTW but it is not solved. I guess that is hard coded that footmen would get up and horse can not when being hit and that is why we have that effect. But it can be solved with huge antichariot bonus given to cavalry. Why it is not done, any explanation?

[John I Tzimisces]

It is the scythes. Any damage to a horses legs whatsoever is practically grounds for putting it down to begin with: Imagine what a scythed chariot would do to one.

[QwertyMIDX]

Chariots aren't stated properly yet, I'll try to get them right in the next build.

[VandalCarthage]

Well, in any case, it's not generally very effective to pit line cavalry against chariots.

[Fallen851]

Whoa now, any damage to a horses leg is grounds to put it down?

My horse should have been dead at least 100 times by now I guess. And I'm talking about 100's severe cuts, no severe problems for the horse.

Now if a horse breaks a leg, that is a totally different story, and horses are often put down for that. But horses aren't stupid, they won't run into scythes unless the rider asks them too (even then they will try to jump over them) and we all know humans are supposed to be smarter than animals. A horse could easily outmanuver a scythe on a chariot...

Cavalry should dominate chariots pretty good... at least they will when I balance the EDU.

[Dooz]

Whoa now, any damage to a horses leg is grounds to put it down?

My horse should have been dead at least 100 times by now I guess. And I'm talking about 100's severe cuts, no severe problems for the horse.

Now if a horse breaks a leg, that is a totally different story, and horses are often put down for that. But horses aren't stupid, they won't run into scythes unless the rider asks them too (even then they will try to jump over them) and we all know humans are supposed to be smarter than animals..

Cavalry should dominate chariots...

Man... that is so far off... A scythed chariot would more than likely completely sever the horses legs, or at least injure it bad enough to incapacitate it. And the horse doesn't "run into a scythe", the scythes run into the horses. Try being in a crowded battlefield, with hundreds of horses and scythed chariots running around. You'll find it difficult to be able to precisely "ask" your horse to please avoid the oncoming scythe with spears, javelins, and swords coming at you from all directions.

[Final Frontier]

Try being in a crowded battlefield, with hundreds of horses and scythed chariots running around. You'll find it difficult to be able to precisely "ask" your horse to please avoid the oncoming scythe with spears, javelins, and swords coming at you from all directions.

Well, in RTW it is possible to destroy chariots on a crowded field with horses, simply because they get bogged down. I've done it once or twice before, and, although the cavalry still get cut up, the chariots lost in the end. In fact, in vanilla Rome I've been able to bog down chariots with horses alone, though I had to use an unnecessarily large amount of them.

[hellas1]

Hi gents!

I couldn't help but mention some things.

Insofar as what I know the Persians & maybe Chinese used these specific chariot types.

Alexander, when fighting Darius, had these things sicked against his army, know what happened?

When a singular phalanx of men saw one coming towards them, Alexander beforehand, to that part of the phalanx to pull back and have everyone else remain where they were the horses driving the chariot's would be impaled the pulled back part of the phalanx's spears!

A similar thing king of occurred with the romans when they were fighting elephants. At first, they were scared but after some time, when elephants were charging towards them they moved out of the way, creating an open line for the elephants to pass through then impaled them!

Just an FYI. Hellas1-A fragrance (Greek that is)

[Fallen851]

Man... that is so far off...

Horses are more agile than humans. A horse can turn 360 degrees almost as fast as a human can despite being far larger. Chariots are not this agile, and unless the rider asked his horse to charge into the chariot, and the horse gravely mistimed his jump over the scythe (both highly unlikely), the horse will easily avoid the chariot. Lastly, the rider would have to be literally fearless, a horse can sense fear (if you visit a barn and fear the horses, they won't like you, because they think you afriad of a nearby predator, you wil scare them), and will likely take control of the situation avoid the chariot (most likely by walking sideways...) because the horse will sense the rider is incapicated. Horses are incredible animals.

To say a clumsy chariot with a scythe could kill a horse, would mean horses would have gone extinct long ago. For centuries they have avoided predators far faster, agile, and sneakier than a chariot's scythe. To a horse, a battle with chariots would be as simple as dancing for a human, a good dancer doesn't step on their partners foot, and a horse doesn't allow a scythe to touch it's leg. Now I'm not saying chariots shouldn't be able to kill cavalry, they simply should not dominate cavalry.

Nor do you have to precisely ask your horse to do anything, if you know your horse, you think, the horse does. It is lightning quick. I guess you've never ridden, otherwise you'd know this. The best riders say nothing, their horse can sense what they want. Your eyes look right, and horse runs right, you eyes look left, the horse runs left. Where your eyes goes, the horse goes. You don't even need to move your head. If you want to stop, the horse can sense that also from subtle body movements.

You should go watch the Lippizanner stallions http://www.lipizzaner.com/. Many of the horse breeds in America today, are larger, less intelligent, slower, and less agile (Quarter horses for instance) than the horse breeds that likely inhabited the anicent world, Andalusians and Arabs.

[Dooz]

Horses are more agile than humans...

Well, I've only ridden once or twice, so I won't claim any false knowledge. Although I feel some of the statements might be a bit exaggerated, I suppose you could be correct about some things.

However, I still don't think in a crowded battlefield environment, all these factors you mentioned have the opportunity to come into play. I'm sure we've all seen horse races where they stumble onto one another and crash to the ground, and that's with a track and only a few horses. Add hostile elements and thousands of horses and you got yourself a lot different circumstances in which the horses intelligence and maneuvarability won't hold consistently. As far as jumping the scythes, even if most of the horses would be able to do that, which I don't see as feesible, they could be cut down during the jump by the riders and fighters in the chariot easily.

And let's not bring the illogical argument of extinction into this. Granted, one on one or in the open fields or whatnot, a horse could avoid a scythed chariot easily. But again, I stress the importance of the circumstances. In a battlefield, not many expectations hold true.

Anyhoo, obviously you've got a good personal knowledge of horses, what do you do?

[Pritzl]

Hmmm... never had to resort to cavalry to combat chariots yet but I find their behaviour in melee against infantry to be acceptable. Against 1-2 units they can deal some damage. But any more, particularly if densely packed, they get bogged down and anihilated in short order.

[Hmmm]

Then again, people started using cavalry BECAUSE it dominated chariots. A chariot archer was less agile, slower and more expensive than a horse archer, for example. Plus the horse archer had the same fire rate. The fact that cavalry was prefered instead of chariots is something, aint it (and dont come and say that the chariot was prefered instead of the cavalry in egypt at 2000 BC or something, cuz thats like saying a legionary is better than a US marine because they used legionaries instead of marines)?