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Thread: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster NEW AT POST #60!!!

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  1. #1
    +Mr.Crow+'s Avatar VIVERE MILITARE EST
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    Icon10 CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster NEW AT POST #60!!!



    Hi all, maybe someone of you remember me for the Warwagon mod....Now i'm working on a new project called CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster. The first goal of this project is to recreate the entire roster of the Kingdom of Sicily between 1150 and 1400 allowing users to know something that had been very important during the medieval age in italy...something that most of us don't know.
    One of the most difficult things of this project is the historical research because i want to realise something that must be historically correct and good to see in the same time. And it's for this reason that i want to thank my friend Zames that help me with the research and with units descriprtions.
    We have done our best and we hope that you guys will enjoy this preview until the release.




    BASE ROSTER (1150-1400)

    PEASANTS
    When a lord calls for war, many peasants, obliged or in search of fortune, join armies, even if totally unfit for battle. In fact, even if they use a lot of agricultural weapons such as hammers, axes and scythes, from which derived many famous medieval weapons, they are totally unable to fight and without defences. They can be used in diversion actions to favorite manuevers by better soldiers, but they should be fast in doing them because peasants cannot stand in line too much, before flee.




    ARCHERS
    The bow is one of the most ancient weapons men have invented, and one of the most used during Middle Ages, either by professional soldiers or by hunters. These archers are hunters and peasants, obliged to serve during a military campaign or in search of fortune. They can be very useful to disrupt enemy ranks faster and more frequently than crossbowmen, cause of the less time charging the weapon, but surely not with the same strenght. They don't have defences, other than some occasional light gambeson, and they have only a knife for the hand-to-hand combat, which is a chance to avoid if possibile, because they couldn't resist more than a few minutes.



    MILITIA SPEARMEN
    Members of new nobility, either Norman or German or French or Aragonese, imposed their dominion when they conquered Southern Italy, and so they can command from lower classes of citizens and from the country soldiers which receive a minaml training needed to fight and stand in line during a battle. Surely thay aren't the best soldiers available, but they are numerous and they can engage the front enemy for some time, while the powerful heavy cavalry charges rears or flanks. The onyl protections they have are a light gambeson (occasionally) and a medium size shield.



    CROSSBOWMEN
    The crossbow is one of the most typical medieval weapons, and one of the deadliest (in fact in 1139 Pope Innocenzo III tried in vain to prohibit its use between christian armies) and one of the easiest in learning to use. So, commanders worthy of the name should always have crossbowmen in their armies. Southern-Italy crossbowmen maybe aren't renowned as Northern Italy ones, but surely they aren't less effective: as well as long distance combat, they can also fight in a hand-to-hand combat, cause of the protection of the gambeson (and occasionally of chainmails) and of the helmet, and cause of swords and falchions they are equipped with. Obviously, if possible they shouldn't fight directly in melee.






    SICULO-NORMAN ROSTER (1150-1194)

    SICULO-NORMAN KNIGHTS
    It may seem strange, but who unified Southern Italy was a group of men from the far north: the Normans. Although it was a violent conquest, the result was one of the most cultured States during the Middle-Ages, the Kingdom of Sicily. These Norman Knights, who form the Southern Italy nobility, are direct descendants of the men who came from the North, and have preserved the indomitable warrior spirit and the ferocity in battle of them. Great warriors, either on horseback or on foot, they are equipped with a good chainmail, the best helmets and great shields.




    FAMILIA
    Nobles are not alone when they take part to a military in campaign: their attendants and squires are with them, with the task of going into battle equipped with what they can afford. In the Siculo-Norman knights case, these warriors are called "familia", and they form groups of light cavalry (even if they can fight also on foot). They don't have a complex equipment, in fact not many can afford a chainmail, so the majority has only the protection of padded coats, nasal helmets and kite shields, while their main weapons are a light lance, if on horseback, and a good sword.




    NORMAN JAVELINMEN
    The javelin is one of the most common throwing weapon of Ancient and Middle Ages, although for many peoples is more typical as a war weapon. In Kingdom of Sicily, the use of javelin is a heritage from previous Arabic and Byzantine conquests. Javelinmen don't come from rich classes, but they can afford a good equipment (a gambeson and a little, round shield), and they are useful to disrupt enemy ranks before a charge by heavier soldiers, such as cavalry.
    In close combat they can use a falchion, but they aren't really reliable in this sense.






    HOHENSTAUFEN ROSTER (1194-1265)

    LUCERA SARACENS
    Surely the most faithfull troops of the Swabian monarchs in Southern Italy, these Saracens don't come from Lucera: in fact they are descendant of those muslims that Frederick II wanted to move from the Sicilian city of Girgenti to resettle the Pugliese country, in 1220. Even if unpopular to local people cause of their origins, Lucera Saracens were not only tireless farmers but also excellent and faithfull warriors, expecially skilled in using the bow; historically they proved their worth and their loyalty many times, for example during the battles of Parma, Cortenuova and Benevento.
    Elite archers and warriors, their typical weapon is obviously the bow, and they have also an eastern curved sword. They mainly fight on foot, but they can fight also on horseback forming a medium-light cavalry.





    GERMAN KNIGHTS
    Frederick II, taking possession and staying almost only in Southern Italy, has taken with him many members of the German nobility to govern many cities of the Kingdom of Sicily, even if he allowed some loyal old Norman families to remain at their place. When war calls, german barons are ready to go into battle with their king as knights, forming the heavy cavalry, unstoppable riding their warhorses but deadly also on foot.
    Their equipment is formed by chainmail, helmet and shield, and occasionally also by an advanced and innovative leather protection from Germany.




    HEAVY GHIBELLINE SPEARMEN
    The reign period of Frederick II and Manfred in Southern Italy was also the time of greatest power of ghibellinism in all Italy. In many Italian Communes pro-imperial factions prevail on guelph ones (such as in Tuscany in that period), receiving support from the Emperor and helping him in exchange, expecially militarily, giving the most typical Italian medieval troops.
    These disciplined soldiers are equipped with great shields ("palvesi" and "tavolacci") and spears, and they're able also to sustain a cavalry charge.




    STIPENDIARII
    Medieval Italy is know as land of Lordships, but also as a land of mercenaries. In fact militias are often insufficient to compose a complete army, so professional soldiers called "stipendiarii" (from latin "stipendiarius", that is "hired") are recruited, and most of them are Germans.
    Equipped with various weapons (swords, maces, axes), they form a good heavy-medium infantry, more suitable to break enemy lines than stand in line as italian communal militias.






    CONSIDERATIONS

    I want to point out that heraldry on Hohenstaufen and next nobles shields were made only after a deep research about real families in those periods and places, to take more realism and historical accuracy to our work. We cannot make the same work for norman shields because we unfortunately have lack of informations about this feature
    .

    FUTURE GOALS


    The second preview will be ready for the first months of the next year (i don't know exactly when). It will show the angevin roster of the Kingdom of Sicily(1265-1302), the angevin roster of the Kingdom of Naples (1302-1400 circa) and the aragon roster of the Kingdom of Trinacria (1302-1400 circa)


    CREDITS

    Mr.Crow: idea, 3d models, textures [click here if you want to rep him]
    Zames: research, descriptions, ui cards, screens for preview [click here if you want to rep him]

    FEEL FREE TO REP OR ADD A COMMENT
    Last edited by +Mr.Crow+; November 12, 2011 at 08:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprian2 View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, you've done something that CA should have thought of a long time ago. You should be on their pay-roll!

  2. #2
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    It is always a pleasure to see such projects that can help mods to their road to completion.
    A small sugestion if i may have your permision.
    Use Lord_Calidor's weapon pack and the entire roster will look diferent!
    If you use it remember to credit him.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  3. #3
    Giorgios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    These are fantastic- good job!

  4. #4

    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    You implemented some much needed variety and crucial history for the Medieval Italian War machines. Thanks for showing this to me! =)
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  5. #5
    karaislam's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    excellent bro.as soon as its out i plan to use those unit for my mod project with ur permission.

  6. #6
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Superb work to both members! Keep the good work but as Anthonius said, Lord Calidor weaponpack will really make your units to shine even more

  7. #7
    Jaguar Paw's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Excellent job on the units Mr. Crow. As mentioned, adds some much needed variety to the Italian unit roster. Good Job
    Member: The Frontier. Researcher, Skinner, and Modeler.












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  8. #8
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Cool stuff.

  9. #9
    CReSTo's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Excellent job,Mr.Crow...


  10. #10
    y2day's Avatar TWC STORE NOW OPEN!
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Really great work Mr.Crow!




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  11. #11
    Finlander's Avatar ★Absolutely Fin-bulous★
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Indeed very nice roster you have there! Looking really good!


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  12. #12
    Grymloq's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Great! I love the Hohenstaufen roster!

  13. #13
    paradamed's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Cool preview. I would only suggest to give the detailed faces to the peasants, archers and militamen as well.

  14. #14
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    looking really awesome, only some shields look a bit fake and too clean (mainly on last units)
    But for the rest it looks truly amazing

  15. #15
    y2day's Avatar TWC STORE NOW OPEN!
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Ya, on the Norman knights if you could give the shields a bit of texture it would look better I think.

    That is the mounted Norman knights and the last unit pic. All in all they look great. Again awesome work!
    Last edited by y2day; November 10, 2011 at 12:57 PM.




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  16. #16
    MorganH.'s Avatar Finis adest rerum
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Thanks for the heads up mate about this awesome preview. +reps to you both.

    You guys have done a wonderful job sofar on expanding the Medieval Italian unit variety.

    Looking forward to this Mod!

  17. #17
    AJStoner's Avatar Lord of Entropy
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Glad to see some attention given to a faction too often ignored. +Rep.

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  18. #18
    Slaxx Hatmen's Avatar This isn't the crisis!
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    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)


    Way to make a comeback Mr.Crow!

    A question on the Saracens in the Hohenstaufen roster though, didn't Fredrick banish all the non-Christians from Sicily when he took over? Or was that one of his descendants I'm thinking of?
    Last edited by Slaxx Hatmen; November 10, 2011 at 01:33 PM.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    Quote Originally Posted by the celt View Post
    Way to make a comeback Mr.Crow!

    A question on the Saracens in the Hohenstaufen roster though, didn't Fredrick banish all the non-Christians from Sicily when he took over? Or was that one of his descendants I'm thinking of?
    Frederich II just "took" away muslims from Sicily in 1220, but he settled them in Pugliese land, also because he needed men to work and settle that land, rich but quite uninhabited. Also historically they were skilled in using bows, swords and spears, but their weapon was the bow.
    I can surely say they were the most faithfull troop of Hoenstaufen rulers (even if they were only 2 in the South Frederich and Manfredi), and some years after Manfredi's death in the battle of Benevento, they suffer a "crusade" by the Angenvines and the muslims in Lucera were destroyed, replaced by Christian population the Anjou wanted there.

    And if you're asking, yes, they are probably my favourite troop in this roster

    I also want to point out that Hoenstaufens nobles shields have real heraldry on their shields, and also future nobles will have it (we've just made research in this way about Provence families who went with Charles I in 1266).

  20. #20

    Default Re: CSUR - Complete Sicilian Unit Roster (1st preview)

    These look AWESOME! The modding community is definitely indebted to you guys for your hard work on this project, I can't wait for release!

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